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    Talking Politics

    Britain and Argentina are as hypocritical as each other

    By Dr Matthew Ashton

    This week the diplomatic back and forth over the Falkland Islands seemed to hit a new low, with both sides accusing the other of duplicity.

    There is no doubt that these arguments have largely been prompted by the 30 year anniversary of the Falklands War. For Britain it conjured up the illusion of long lost imperial greatness, and in the case of Argentina it was a humiliating defeat. As the great American historian Shelby Foote once commented, 'it's the fights we lose that really stay with us'. However it could equally be argued that both sides are also motivated by 'banal' nationalism and a desire to control the resources in the area.

    What really irritates me though isn't so much the on-going sabre rattling, but the hypocrisy on both sides. When David Cameron talks about the right to national self-determination it sounds rather hollow considering our behaviour throughout the years. A good example would be the Chagos Islands, where Britain evicted the majority of the population in the 1970s in order to allow the US to build a military base. The islanders were removed from their homes against their will and the UK has blocked every attempt since then for them to return. According to the Wikileaks diplomatic cables, the British government recently decided to turn most of the area into a marine reservation so that it would be almost impossible for the former inhabitants to continue their fight for their land. Activities like this make it appear that when it comes to the right of self-determination the British government believes in it for some people but not for others.

    However, Argentina doesn't occupy the moral high ground when talking about territorial rights either. Argentina was largely colonised by Spanish settlers who took the land from the indigenous population, killing huge numbers of them in the process. This continued throughout most of the 20th century and it's only recently that any attempt has been made to rectify the situation, although most observers would argue they're half-hearted at best. If Argentina really does believe in the need to return land to its original owners, I presume they're going to give all the land back that they acquired from the Kolla, Toba, Guaraní and Wichí people (to name but a few). To take the case of the Wichí, they've been struggling for years to gain legal recognition for the little land they have left. Despite this battle it hasn't stopped the Argentinean government selling off large areas of the nature reserve on which they live, to private companies who've started cutting down the forest for farmland. The Wichí tribe were finally given legal rights to less than 10km2 of it and the logging companies were given the go-ahead to continue destroying much of their old reserve. Perhaps this is what President Kirchner was talking about when she spoke about the need to respect territorial rights. The reality of the matter is that Argentina has been trampling on the land rights of its indigenous people for years and despite repeated promises to the contrary these groups are still having to campaign to try and get back just a fraction of what they've had taken from them.

    It should also be made clear that most of the other South American countries that have thrown their weight behind Argentina in the Falklands argument have equally complicated relationships with their indigenous people. For instance Chile has an appalling record when it comes to its treatment of the Mapuche. For most of the 20th century they spent their time stealing the Mapuche's land, and even today they're complicit with mining and forestry companies in helping to destroy it, or making use of anti-terrorism legislation to lock up people who tried to protest against it.

    What does all this mean then? Certainly two wrongs don't make a right. The fact that both the Argentinean and British governments have acted shamefully in the past (and in some cases continue to do so), doesn't necessarily mean either side is right or wrong when it comes to the Falkland Islands. However it does mean that neither country should be quite so quick to jump onto the moral high-ground and talk about their deep-felt belief in either self-determination or territorial rights.

    Dr Matthew Ashton is a politics lecturer at Nottingham Trent University. Visit his blog.

     
    • Iain Parkes  •  3 months ago
      At the end of the day, The people of the Falkland islands are the ones who should have the final say over which nation they belong to. So far, every time they have expressed their opinion, they have wanted to stay British.
      • Christopher 3 months ago
        This says it all
      • J KAY 3 months ago
        I should think they would ! 255 UK lives lost and £25 million a year on defence.
      • Keith 3 months ago
        Of course the have, since they were put their by the british and lived for generation under UK "rule". Why on earth do you think they would express a wish to move to Argentina or any other country?
    • kelvin allanj  •  Abergele, Wales  •  3 months ago
      Argentina is no more independent of Spain and 'Spanishness' than India would be if every Indian PM and President was white and had a name like Johnson, MacKay and Williams with English being both India's majority and official language. The Spanish treatment of Argentina's native population is a disgrace with frequent military incursions into the Indian occupied territories with the express intention of "reducing the native population". And that chilling phrase is from the Argentine history written by the Spanish!
      History tells us that the Spanish were remarkably murderous colonisers. If by some freak of backroom politicising, the UN pushes towards negotiation we should insist that it be obly with the remaining indigenous population of Argentina. Having accused the UK of acting like colonists, Kirchner can hardly object.
      • J KAY 3 months ago
        we were so good to the American Indians, we gave them nice little reservations on barren land !
      • A Yahoo! User 3 months ago
        who is we--paleface----angus
      • kelvin allanj 3 months ago
        We??
        There were no reservations until well after the US Declaration of Independance. I don't think there were any until after the US Civil War. So "we" it definitely was not!
    • John No  •  Manchester, England  •  3 months ago
      Amazing and tear jerking article. I wanted to hug and show my sympathy to all those penguins killed in the south atlantic conflicts. In other words lets ignore the falkland people who were invaded by the argies and who leaders where murdering juntas on their own people. And because everything is quiet now the population of the falklands who never wished to be invaded must vote on who reigns and controls their best interest. I have been there twice 1987 and 1990 at Hillcove Foxbay Port Stanley and MPA. Yet never heard a peep or grudge about being oppressed by the British government or forces. In fact they probably more loyal than the Scots.
      • KENNETH 3 months ago
        Actually John it is unlikely many, or indeed any, penguins were killed during the conflict, although just occasionally one unfortunate one is killed by the Argentine land mines that still litter the beaches, especially outside Stanley, and which are too dangerous to try to remove. Many lovely beaches are still out of bounds and barbed wired off. But I did appreciate your humour.(honestly).
      • KENNETH 3 months ago
        Further to your remarks John, it was many years, something like 25 years before the Argentines gave up Capt Astiz who was the leader of the Navies "torture unit " and was responsible for many of the deaths of the lost people. He has been hiding out for those years in Argentina before being brougt to justice. He was also in charge of the units defending S Georgia.
      • Keith 3 months ago
        Why not stay there if you love it so much?
    • Dreamer  •  3 months ago
      The Falkland islanders want to be British. They have the right under international law to self-determination so they can make the decision to remain British. Argentina has an appalling record on human rights generally, let alone on respecting the rights of it's own indigenous populations - and it is worth remembering that there were no indigenous peoples on the Falklands. Any comment about "lost imperial greatness" is a load of rowlocks.
    • Ben  •  3 months ago
      As shameful as the treatment of the people of the Chagos Islands/Diego Garcia undoubtedly was and is, it does not preclude the right of the Falkland Islanders to decide their own future. This is like arguing that, once a football team has commited a foul in a match, they must stop playing; i.e., because the British have behaved unethically in one place, they should not be allowed to do anything, anywhere, ever again, including doing what is right, in this case defending the islanders' wish for self-determination.
      • Somnomulus Id 3 months ago
        '.' - We get paid a significant sum of money by the Amereeeecans for the use of the Chagos Islands, that's the difference!! Interestingly, take a look on Google earth at them, or at least at the pretty airbrushed, patched images of where they're supposed to be - particulary given that the imagery comes from Data SIO, NOAA, US Navy, NGA, GEBCO! You are seeing what they want you to see.
      • Ben 3 months ago
        As I've suggested in my posting, there isn't any difference in principle. I'm not defending the treatment of the Diego Garcians. However, that doesn't make the British wrong to stand up for the Falklanders' interests. I don't subscribe to the cynical view that the U.K. is only really in this for the possible natural resources in the area, either. That has only become an issue more recently and wasn't on the agenda in 1982 or before that. I would agree that Margaret Thatcher used the conflict for political gain, but that doesn't devalue the argument for self-determination. If we're so dishonest, why don't we walk away from Gibraltar, or, for that matter, Northern Ireland? What natural resources are there there?
      • Somnomulus Id 3 months ago
        Lets say, entirely hypothetically, the Argentinians offered the UK government a significant annual sum to locate a base (military or otherwise) on the Falklands would the UK Govt be likely to accept, would the Falklanders? Now consider the same option if the US made the offer, how do you think that would go down? Though it could kill two birds and one stone...maybe? Now, consider a private Argentinian company paying UK/Falklands PLC to extract oil/gas or indeed a US company? IS there a UK company capable of extracting such resources in the first place? I'm really not sure. Of course, the Falkland islanders would need to be totally on board with this would they not? So, every man woman and child on the Islands - here's 5 million each. How do you think about it now and more to the point, how would they think about it? (Approx 3000 population = 15bn) Consider that the BP oil spill in Mexico has cost a conservative £50bn so far...

        So just, hypothetically, if you where in their position, what would you do? Oh and you wouldn't have to move, if you didn't want to...And there's a job for you and your family for life...if you think £5m isn't enough to tide you over...sign here, here and here and you can fly whatever damn flag you like. Hypothetically speaking, of course...
    • Adrian.  •  3 months ago
      You forgot to mention the 1850 Convention of Settlement treaty that settled all differences between the UK and Argentina and created perfect realtions. That ended the dispute, and is the reason why Argentina has never offered to take the matter to the International Court of Justice.
    • The_Truth  •  3 months ago
      Proximity does not dictate ownership. Just because the Falklands lie close to Argentina, it does not mean that they should by defaukt become the property of Argentina. The fact that the people wish to remian British means that the rights of the people should be adhered to. Argentina is going down a cul-de-sac and it highlights failings within their domestic policy.
      • J John M T 3 months ago
        It is interesting that you should consider a distance of almost 400 miles as being "close" to Argentina. Perhaps Argentina should lay claim to Chile which, after all is right next door.....
      • mike h 3 months ago
        I lived in Stanley for some time, and can only say that should you wish to hand over an island like Falkland to a bunch of political incompetant sabre rattling Quasi Spaniards, then you are indeed a sad person. Dont forget, the Cape Routes could be controlled from FI., and it is quite on the cards that they will be needed again some day.It is wrong to acceed to overseas demands for new territory just for the preservation of the "stiff upper lip" Just because the Arge wants to be able to say they" took " the Falklands from UK, doesn't mean that they should be given them.
      • A Yahoo! user 3 months ago
        really it's not about Argentina or Britain. It's about this #$%$ trolling the internet claiming to be a journo.
    • michael m  •  Dublin, Ireland  •  3 months ago
      Dr Ashton is right about the Chagos Islands, Britain should repatriate them back to their islands and compensate them.
      As far as the Falklands are concerned, they are British,and the Islanders wish to remain British.
    • O  •  3 months ago
      argentina is close to brazil so brazil must own argentina.
    • James  •  Birmingham, England  •  3 months ago
      I note that you are a politics lecturer presumably with more than just a passing knowledge of geo-political issues though the above feature does little to assure me otherwise. Perhaps with your erudition you would rationalise Argentina's claim on the Falklands when at the time of the islands assumption by the UK it did not exist as a sovereign nation with any territorial mandate over them. If proximity to the mainland rather than the will of the indigenous occupants is deemed to be the ruling principle then perhaps we should be considering abdicating the UK's jurisdiction over the Channel Islands and transferring them to France. Only, of course, that is not what the Channel Islanders want! And as we respect their wishes shouldn't we be doing the same for the Falkland Islanders? And for the record the people of Argentina are Argentines not Argentineans.
    • the big bad budda  •  Rochdale, England  •  3 months ago
      at the end of the day all this back and forth is irrelevant. the islands were british before argentina even existed. therefore the argies have NO claim to the islands now. end of story.
    • anthony  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      And the solution is what? We can establish what we want and justify this or that. The situation remains that Falklands are British sovereign territory. Argentina purely wants the assets, the fisheries and care not a fig for the people. Truthfully neither do we. But possession is 9 points of the law. So what do we do roll over?
    • RONALD  •  Wolverhampton, England  •  3 months ago
      the past is the past and the fact is the people of the Falklands don't want Argentina end of story
    • David  •  St Albans, England  •  3 months ago
      Falklands = British.... simple fact... get over yourselves Agentina..
    • Dennis  •  Maidenhead, England  •  3 months ago
      The Falkland Islands are 300 miles away from Argentina. If that distance applied to
      us claiming land, we could claim Iceland and many more bits of land 300 miles from
      the UK. The people of the Falklands wish to remain British as do the Gibraltarians.
      Let them be as they wish to be. Politicians keep out of it, you just cause wars!
    • keith  •  Brighton, England  •  3 months ago
      The Falkland Islanders are British, and they want to remain British. No Argentineans have ever lived on the Falkland Islands, so the Falkland Islands are British. To put Argentina and Britain on a level playing field of hypocrisy is ridiculous. Some of these intellectual academic types are just so stupid.
    • ALASDAIR  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      An article about the Falklands that says nothing about the Falklands....interesting.
    • Deuteronanme  •  3 months ago
      So, Dr. Ashton, what you are saying is that both countries have a history of colonisation.
      Apart from that the only other thing you have done, is to invite us to visit your blog
    • bernie78  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      we are only having this conversation because the ark royal was scrapped -some may remember i predicted argentina wouldget all confident again when they realised we would now have difficulty defending the isle of wight -we didnt need to buy ark royal it we didnt need to buy the harriers on it but the idiot scrapped the lot and saved nothing the crew are still being paid to do nothing either by the navy or the benifits system anyway i told you so and france wont help call me dave on this one they are busy building more exocet missiles in case argies place an order
    • David  •  St Albans, England  •  3 months ago
      Argentina was not even thought off when the Falklands was occupied by the British... iT British, and will remain British... sod off Argys.. why don't you sail your troops over to the Island.. oh no.. you better not.. It not safe to go back into the water yet...

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