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    Talking Politics

    What difference do the Occupy protests make?

    Photo: AFP/Getty ImagesBy Dr Matthew Ashton

    The left has been comprehensively outmanoeuvred in Britain over the last 30 years. They need to reconsider their tactics.

    Today sees the 100-day anniversary of the Occupy Movement in Nottingham. So far the mainstream media has focused almost all of its attention on the Occupy London movement, and in particular the camp set up outside St Paul's. As a result most of the arguments have been about their right to protest there and not their criticisms of capitalism.

    In Nottingham there has been a small camp based in the main city centre square for over three months now. Made up of several dozen tents, they've been a continuing presence throughout the winter. For the first time I actually went to see them yesterday to ask them what they were trying to achieve. As I pointed out, 100 people in the centre of a medium-size East Midlands city wasn't likely to bring capitalism to its knees any time soon.

    The protesters I spoke to took this in good humour and argued that their actions were more about raising awareness than necessarily bringing about change. As one told me: "Lots of people have doubts about what's going on and we reassure them that their doubts are valid. We try to point them in the right direction and how they can find out further information for themselves."

    They also argued that it wasn't their role to actually come up with the solutions. As one protester rather succinctly put it: "We're pointing out that the emperor in naked. We might suggest that he puts 2some clothes on but it's not our job to make him a new wardrobe." Another added: What would be good though is to have a more active citizenry. Democracy should be about people being politically active, you can't have a passive democracy."

    All the people I spoke to at the camp were articulate and clearly passionate about what they were doing. According to them over 50% of the comments they get from the public are positive, and they don't seem to have had the problems with the local government that have occurred in London. Despite this, I came away feeling rather depressed. The protesters will today celebrate 100 days camped in Nottingham and plan to stay there for as long as they can, but is it actually making any difference? The Greenham Common peace camp protesters remained outside the RAF airforce base for over a decade but the nuclear missiles only left with the ending of the Cold War.

    I think the wider problem that needs to be faced is the unpleasant truth that the left has been comprehensively outmanoeuvred in Britain, and perhaps globally, over the past 30 years. Labour supporters might point to Tony Blair's three election victories in a row, but that ignores the fact that they were won partly due to moving to the centre ground, and partly due to the disintegration of the Conservative Party. Since then the two parties have moved even closer together on a range of issues.  Most of the left's victories have been in terms of the rhetoric rather than the reality. David Cameron could never stand up today and say something like "there's no such as thing as society", as Thatcher once did, without being booed off stage. However, his plans on cuts to the public sector and bringing private firms into the health service go further than she could ever have dreamed.

    This week has seen all three party leaders attempting to take the moral high ground when it comes to 'responsible capitalism' (possibly an oxymoron). The trouble with this is that while their public pronouncements were full of high ideals and fine sentiments, they were depressingly short of actual detail.

    Cameron in particular fell down in this regard, mainly offering up the hope that if he asks the big beasts of capitalism to play more nicely with each other, than they will. He might as well have tried asking lions in the wild to give up being carnivores. Meanwhile Nick Clegg was on TV attempting to justify cuts in benefits on the basis of fairness while wriggling around difficult questions about the cuts in disability spending and bank bonuses.  This is clearly some new meaning of the word fairness I was hitherto unaware of.

    While I think the protesters are right to be raising awareness about the injustices in our society, I think one of the most important questions they need to address is the failure of their tactics, strategies and message over the past few years. Until they do, the right will continue to define the status-quo and we'll soon be back to making the same old mistakes that got us into this mess in the first place.

    Dr Matthew Ashton is a politics lecturer at Nottingham Trent University

     

    46 comments

    • The Voodoo Who do What Yo ...  •  Oxford, England  •  4 months ago
      Left wing... right wing... It is all a load of tosh!!! two sides of the same coin. The problem isn't about picking one of these approaches. The problem is US!!.... YOU!! ME!! EVERYBODY!!! WE are to blame for all of this. Because we are greedy, and want too much for ourselves without considering who we trample on to get it. We are ignorant of how the people we take our money from got it. We are all happy to sit in the comfort that we feel we deserve, or have earned. We are all breeding uncontrollably. We are all out of touch with our fellow citizens and dont care for anyone we dont know personally. We are all competing voraciously for false ideas of what living is, and waste our concerns on posessions and opinions. We all use far more resources than we need. We all pollute far more than we should. We all want everybody else to do what we want without doing what they want. We dont understand or listen to ourselves enough.
      We are all compliant in our downfall, because we are happy to ignore our moral voice, and take dirty payments to let things go on behind closed doors without regulation.
      A little tip here to keep quiet. A little tip here to let me dump this waste somewhere convenient. A little tip here to let my son go to your school. A little tip here to let my crime go unpunished.
      We feed these wrongs by our own greed. It is about time we all stood up for ourselves and paid attention to do what is right, and fight the wrongdoings in this world
      • The Voodoo Who do What Yo ... 4 months ago
        Quite simply this world needs more decent, honest, enlightened people walking apon it. Perhaps that could start with everybody who is bringing up a Son or Daughter, to instill a sense of what is right or wrong. To have enough pride to say no to easy dirty money, and take pride in hard work. To grow up with compassion, and love for all natures creatures. To strive to be wise and just.
        To be at one with themselves, and not to try to change because of some bullys opinion.

        And then maybe eventually we will have a nation of people who live like this.
    • Simon Gruffydd  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      Alex either has very mixed up ideas about 'right' and 'left' politics and its relation to protest movements, or is purposely trying to confuse us. I suspect the former.

      Protesting for change is not the exclusive domain of either left or right politics. It depends on the issue and angle. Everyone wants a fair and just society. The solutions by we propose to achieve that puts us more in the 'right' or 'left' camp. Many of the initiatives suggested by the Occupy movement, like an honest money supply for example , falls more in to the right side of politics.

      In short, the continuation of the debt-based money supply can only result in complete collapse with dire economic circumstances for all. That's not an opinion. It's science and can easily proved mathematically. This is not a 'right wing' or 'left wing' issue. It concerns everyone who wants to breath, eat, and live a materially secure life. All of us. Right and Left. Green Blue Black and Purple.

      Unfortunately Alex just sticks easy labels on things and never looks under the cover. Pabulum for the masses.
      • Magic Lemur 4 months ago
        I agree, although it was Dr Matthew Ashton who wrote the article, not Alex
      • Guess Who 4 months ago
        Simon - Good points made. Another Yahoo writer who rightly can`t get a job elsewhere.
      • Hilz 4 months ago
        Dr Ashton wants to give the reader the impression that protests(of any sort, let alone the Occupy movement) are exclusively for lefties and that the whole Occupy thing should be seen as just an expression of democracy-left versus right.
        In fact he's seriously oversimplifying the main reason why the Occupy Movement is going in the first place, but he better not tell us the truth or he'd be out of a job.
    • SUSAN  •  Ilford, England  •  4 months ago
      We all know that Cameron has absolutely no intention of doing anything about RBS CEO's high wages, and bonuses - but the protests have got the issue on the agenda - which is more than The Labour Party have done. Please, if you want to express your disgust with regard to the RBS LEACHES, the worldwide protest group avaaz are gathering signatures for an on-line petition. We all know that the recent rubbish 'sprouted' by Cameron & Osbourne about excessive CEO wages and bonuses will come to nothing, it will be up to us to put pressure on these useless politicians, to stop a state owned bank, which was bailed-out to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds, which is still making massive losses (and costing the tax payer yet more), awarding it's chiefs massive boneses, and wages.
      • Bobcat 4 months ago
        I can't see anything wrong with Bob Diamond's £10million Christmas bonus...apart from the fact that it's taking the P1ss. Obviously the camel WILL get to heaven before HE does!
      • boingsplat 4 months ago
        Bobcat, Bob Diamond is CEO of a private company and if the company makes big profits you get a big bonus, admittedly the remuneration committee are known to be ineffective as regards pay restraint as often they are on several remuneration committees and support each others gravy train.
        Hester on the other hand is CEO of a nationalised company, rumour has it he is expected to receive a £1.3 million bonus on top of his million plus yearly wage. If so (and Clegg was on telly denying this bonus would be paid) then this is taxpayers money that he would be walking off with. There should not be wages of a million pounds in the social sector.
        I can't see what one indvidual does that merits a million in wages, never mind ten, it clearly IS taking the p1ss, in this time of austerity, as a number of schools were closed for want of £1 million and if that was just to pay Hester then someone needs a slap.
      • simon e 4 months ago
        If Clegg (- and not Cameron, interestingly enough) is seen on TV declaring a banker won't be receiving bonuses, you can bet that they will.
    • A Yahoo! User  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      democracy is just chosing your dictator for 4 years really.
      • Richard 4 months ago
        5 years...
      • Magic Lemur 4 months ago
        "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried from time to time" - Winston Churchill
      • Guess Who 4 months ago
        My parents were saying the same thing 50 yrs ago and they said at the time their parents said the same thing.

        You have the ill informed voting for the self serving/corrupt - wonder how the world will turn out? Easy look around you.
    • SUSAN  •  Ilford, England  •  4 months ago
      No pay increases, or bonus payouts for RBS bosses.
      • simon e 4 months ago
        Yes, but they have, I read that last year one ceo in RBS got a £2 mill bonus - this is all taxpayers money, why are they allowed to get away with it ?
    • boingsplat  •  Linlithgow, Scotland  •  4 months ago
      A. It depends on whether symbolism is something you take note of, or just walk past.
      I can only vaguely remember a left wing UK government. This recent form of capitalism has run out of control in the Western economies; it may be argued that this is an inherent flaw of capitalism; that some individuals have been running capitalism for their benefit alone and/ or that however foolproof you try to make a system, fools are just too ingenious for that to work.
      I don't believe socialism has been discredited and one feature, that of taxing everyone to provide: emergency services, that must meet a certain standard; libraries and education for children to the age of 18, is the simplest and most effective way of providing these. Matters such as basic health care and further education are a contentious issue at the moment; my opinion is that the Scots are correct to treat these as investments, in people and so society. Any restraint on people getting back to full health or on developing their talents is a drag on society in general. Certainly it is possible to run a profit on the sick and dying but to me there is something distasteful about this.
      I must say that my recollection of Russia (Moscow 1992) was a violent, corrupt place but curiously the metro system was: cheap, fast, efficient and a months travel pass was sixty cents (and that is socialism). No point in people worrying if they can afford to get to work. Power (get this) and water was free; I know this is unthinkable in a capitalist ideology, but power companies forming a cartel and gouging the UK customer is not an improvement in any way. My conclusion is that socialism works well in certain sectors of the economy, but where industrialisation and innovation is required it is too slow moving to compete effectively. So while we desperately require innovators and innovation in: telecoms; renewables and superconductivity which is suited to capitalism; society should be run and maintained by the socialists for the benefit for society in general without the demand for profit.
      The current problems are because: Tony Blair sold legislation; Thatcher sold power utilities and a lack of a clear UK objective have allowed political sponsors to rule the day.
    • Harry Thefly  •  Norwich, England  •  4 months ago
      Better hope that Occupy don't start targeting important data centres then we will see who understands tactics and strategy.
    • Felice  •  Stockport, England  •  4 months ago
      well it's abut time people realise this is a monarchy, the queen should be the one saving the nation by approving only fair legislation for her kingdom but we never hear anything; as for the protesters they're 3 decades too late we're already globalised. the real fight worldwide should concentrate against the banks; they are the one still making money on capitals they never had which they lent us and still getting interest on it in a time when the whole world is struggling just to pay the interest. Now try to start a referendum on the deprivatisation of the bank,they should be owned and governed by the people ( it's us making them rich) and you'll see that democracy its just a concept and you will probably realise were the power really lies. Now you can probably understand why mr cameron veto was to protect the banks (british intertest) and not the people.
      Stop borrowing money, learn to live without, empty your bank account THis is the real solution.
    • Angel Flint  •  4 months ago
      It never ceases to amaze me how easily people are led by propaganda mind control. If a government want to change something, or do something unsavoury, they first demonize it in order to gain public opinion. People follow like lemmings. It works like a dream almost every time. The ones who think and disagree, raise the issue as best they can so that there is a balanced view. Admitted it maybe a minority view after the public brain washing treatment, but it is there. That is what freedom of speech and true democracy is all about.
    • AJ  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      It really is amazing how we went from fighting with our very lives for freedom from the oppressive royals back in the magna carta days, to being so used to being free, we take it for granted to the point where people don't even take an interest.
    • Heiko Maybaum  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      Nobody knows what the money really does and what is going on. There are thousend of specialist on economy studied e.g. but nobody knows whats going on. There is wild hope and dreams of old heraldic paternal masters with lots of money to give , but the reallity is bleak.
      we donty win people with the slogan boy tomorrow your day is worse. would you get out of bed?
    • ScholarOfBabylon  •  Birmingham, England  •  4 months ago
      Capitalism as a system has to go on perpetually, continuously growing and consuming resources at ever increasing levels which is impossible within a finite structure such as we have on planet earth. If you cannot understand and perceive this basic principle you should not be allowed to impact other peoples lives with your ignorance.
    • Fair Shares  •  St Albans, England  •  4 months ago
      Thanks Matthew,
      Sadly, the vast rescources that "capitalism" commands such as endless media-fear, recession, mindless tv etc. have dumbed-down democracy and turned us into an unkind, blaming, grasping, selfish people. I know that it seems impossible for a few people to change such vested interest but history is littered with examples. If we do not engage in the political system we will lose democracy. I was "there" in the 60's and I have also seen a mere two hundred workers change deeply entrenched political policy in the NHS, saving countless lives as we speak. It seems to me that it is not that a particular ideology is right or wrong, it is the unprincipled application of those concepts. Sadly, politics is hopelessly unprincipled, until that issue is addressed we will continue to suffer the fate we deserve? I have no authority to comment as I have never faught for my country but surely we owe it to the 100s of thousands of those who have to ensure that we create a kinder society for them and for our children.
      pp fair shares
    • John  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      One of the best editorials that I have read in a very long time. I hope that he continues writing and maintaining this truth.
    • BRIAN  •  Edinburgh, Scotland  •  4 months ago
      I must be living on a different planet than some of these commentators. Britain has had no left-wing policies since thatcher destroyed the economic base of this country and her right-wing policies were continued by Blair and his right-wing who cronies who hijacked the Labour Party. As for the BBC being left-wing-you got to be kidding.
    • Peter L  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      The Occupy movement is providing one very useful function - and that is purely to keep the issue topical. Isn't it true, after all, that once the furore had died down... many of the MP's re-submitted previously withdrawn expenses claims? And, after a while, the bankers began taking large bonuses again (and speaking as someone who knows a bank worker), continue to lavish perks on many of their staff, like a 'massage' day that her office recently enjoyed. The 'top' is rotten and nothing has really changed that so far, because we so easily 'forget' about these scandals and soldier on, which 'they' are all too aware of...
    • Jax A  •  4 months ago
      True, for 3 decades we've been told we should all be nothing but individuals, seeking our own advantage and howling any time anyone gets anything they don't 'deserve'. (Unless it's very rich people getting even richer, in which case the market tells us they richly deserve to be even richer).
      If some young people are stirring a bit, shaking off the dull self-righteousness of Thatcher's disappointing generation, and daring to point out that there definitely is something wrong with naked capitalism, well that's great, IMO. And the fact that these young people have the courage and the integrity to say straight out they're not trying to propose solutions is to be welcomed.
      Respect to them, from this aging ex-trot!
    • Mr look for the truth  •  Hull, England  •  4 months ago
      If it wasn't for the occupy movement the whole issue would have been kicked into the long grass a long time ago. Government is feeling very uneasy that they are unable to bury the bankers issue at a time when they are more interested in demonising the poor end of the working class, and so forcing it to make some minor concessions on bonuses etc. Keep on occupying to get even more from the thieves who broke the economy.
    • Catherine  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      I noticed one protesters banner demanded free speech, I thought we already had that. I would much prefer people who are against any form of order to use their right to protest in a way that does'n't create eye sores in town and city centres. This way they might get a more sympathetic hearing. What happened to soap boxes?
    • Jay  •  Brighton, England  •  4 months ago
      w ww.freeworldcharter. org is the answer to Occupy and the problems we face

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