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    Talking Politics

    Giving the unborn their say

    Trusting our politicians is hard at the best of times. Letting them take care of the interests of the country is, as we have seen repeatedly, more than enough of a challenge for them. Is it too much, then, to ask them to take on the interests of the unborn, too?

    That's the idea behind a radical new report by the Green party's thinktank, Green House, which is worried that there is a chronic failure among the political classes to adopt anything remotely resembling a long-term outlook. On climate change alone, it's argued, the need for politicians to be forced to take the interests of future voters as well as present ones into account is pressing.

    Of course, under the present system they are only accountable to their electorates. So report author Rupert Read, a former Green party candidate who lectures in philosophy at the University of East Anglia, has come up with a rather far-out idea. He proposes a super-jury, randomly picked from the public, whose solemn task it would be to make sure those pesky politicians don't forget the needs of those still to come. These 'guardians of future generations' would join the Commons and the Lords to form a third House of Parliament. Critically, they would have the power to veto any legislation proposed by the other two.

    Bonkers, eh? Not even Green party leader Caroline Lucas is prepared to support this one outright. But Dr Read insists he's on to something here.

    "A people, a society, isn't just a time-slice," he explained to me in an interview for politics.co.uk's latest podcast.  "It exists in the past, it goes on into the future. We have to find a way of including future people in the sense that we have of the demos. If they could have a vote, they would massively outvote us."

    One thing this report has achieved is raise a fundamental question: at what point in the future do we start to lose interest? Can we be trusted to look after the interests of our children, and our children's children?

    I suspect that whether the answer to the latter question is yes or no, there's no need for a super-jury to represent their interests. If we can't be trusted, then it's questionable whether a super-jury picked from our midst would be able to put aside the short-term interests of the alive in favour of the ill-defined needs of the unborn. If we can be trusted, there's no need for the 'guardians' in the first place.

    It's the basic effectiveness of a bunch of Brits being plucked from the ether and pitched into a critical role in our nation's public life which triggers the most scepticism.

    Read believes that extensive training, forcing them to take an oath to defend the interests of future generations and giving them access to the "best advice", would solve the problem. But there remains the fact the idea is utterly undemocratic, undermining the basic principles of representation on which the sovereign Commons (and, shortly, the Lords) are supposed to be based.

    Entirely separately, Conservative backbencher Douglas Carswell spent this morning giving evidence to a Commons committee on his criticisms of the coalition's very limited plans to introduce a mechanism by which MPs could be recalled by fed-up constituents before the next general election. Carswell wants ministers to go much further, as at the moment a recall petition will only be triggered if an MP is jailed or if a Westminster committee of parliamentarians approves it.

    What if machinating politicians make vexatious attempts to trigger by-elections, for partisan advantage? Carswell acknowledged that this would happen, but believes voters would see through that. He wants politicians to "trust the good judgement of the people".

    That is, ultimately, the principle on which our democracy is based. When it comes to safeguarding the interests of our descendants, any deviation from this basic idea is very hard to accept. Winning the argument, rather than fixing the rules, is always going to be the best way forward.

     

    52 comments

    • Ian  •  Dublin, Ireland  •  4 months ago
      Has anyone of you besides steve, actually read this article. The journalist has ferred to the short term thinking and planning of politicians because they must appease their constituents, the journalist is saying the Greens are asking for a commitment for long term approach to issues such as global warming etc.
      • Enigma 4 months ago
        Did you mean global scandal lol 4 an eternity.
    • Barry  •  4 months ago
      Certainly not a perfect proposal, and lots of major problems with this as it stands. But the paradigm shift here - thinking about and respecting the needs of future generations as well as the current one - is something which precvious few governments ever do. Not good in its current form then Dr Read thank you, but well done in a way for generating a long overdue debate, which needs to be had.
      • A 4 months ago
        Agreed. Governments rarely think beyond the next 5 years, hence our being saddled with things like PFI. I think it's a decent idea, despite needing work.
      • Fred the Ted 4 months ago
        Come off it, this debate has been going on for years. Even the advertisers were using it 20 years ago when they had posters on the buses saying leave fuel for the next generation, urging people to travel by bus.
    • Sleepy-Jazz  •  Hexham, England  •  4 months ago
      This is not Rupert Read's idea. He is being credited with the work of others who have been arguing back and forth about this concept of future responsibility and legal ethics regarding the environment for the last decade or so. It is not my specific field so I am uncertain as to who are the main debaters but I know that Dr Derek Bell of Newcastle, Professor Simon Caney of Oxford, Dr Edward Page of Warwick, Dr Graham Long of Newcastle, and Dr Kerri Woods of York have been involved in this debate since at least 2004 and probably alot earlier.
      • Fred the Ted 4 months ago
        And don't fored Richard Hare's classical paper on possible people. It seems as if anyone promoting green politics can claim priority or immunity from criticism. Is he from the Univ. East Anglia by chance, the temple of the climate apocalypse.
    • Daniel  •  4 months ago
      Yep, keep on worrying about tomorrow, oh did you just waste today, again?
    • wodgot  •  4 months ago
      What are these pre-womb and post-womb politics about?
    • A Yahoo! User  •  4 months ago
      Politicians need to get the needs of the here and now sorted, if we are looked after properly by these elected people then the unborn will benefit too, policy makers need to find out where things are going badly at the present moment because never in all my years have I seen this country so unsettled and unhappy, people always have grumbles but this is beyond that there is an underlying mistrust of all politicians and that is bad.
    • Anne  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      If all politicians acted only for the benefit and well being of those they represent, then the future of the unborn needs no legislation.
    • Steve  •  4 months ago
      Could we make a point of reading the article before posting comments.
      It is not about abortion.
      It's not about anything much at all really.
      • ALASDAIR 4 months ago
        I did and shared my thoughts
    • Jade  •  Bromley, England  •  4 months ago
      Global warming cleaner air /fuels, research, cigarettes, alcohol, world peace it's news day in day out , it doesn't have an impact on the past it affects our future every one IS involved in it now like it or not. Gardians of the future !!!!!! please not some other silly over paid non productive committee. Need a job Need a job Me first Me first loverley lolly! sorry miss you need a college degree in stupidity like the rest of us!
    • Sarah  •  4 months ago
      UK is a country that couldn't give a toss for the unborn, look at the abortion rate. Who gave us abortion as contraception? Politicians and journalists. What is the solution of politicians and journalists to a population which is only at replacement levels because of abortion? Mass immigration. Is mass immigration good for society? Absolutely not says the only sociologist that has done long term research into its effects, Dr. Robert Putnam.
    • anon  •  4 months ago
      What a load of old cobblers! Politics is more about money than people despite the many promises made by governments otherwise everything wouldn't be in such a mess. It would be nothing short of a miracle if such a jury ever came into existance and if politicians and MP's aren't achieving this already just what are they doing and what's the point of them?
    • Ian  •  Dublin, Ireland  •  4 months ago
      obviously nothing to do with the rights of the unborn/ abortion issues
    • Steve  •  4 months ago
      If the unborn are given rights, how long before someone claims child benefit for the kids they haven't had yet?
      That's flippant, but this article (and the Green Party generally) deserve nothing else.
      It didn't get interesting till the last two paragraphs. There's the germ of a good idea there.
    • Steve  •  4 months ago
      Look at the last 3 paragraphs. (The rest of the article doesn't say much).
      There's a good idea in there for anyone who is interested in finding ways of holding an unpopular Government (or individual MP) to account.
      And another one - if we are now to have American-style fixed term parliaments, how about nicking another idea. Mid Term elections.
      Not a full party political pantomime like we get at general elections.
      Just a straight yes or no vote of confidence in the sitting government.
      If the vote goes against the government by, say, 3 to 2 a full general election is triggered early.
      We have to find a way of preventing all governments from doing exactly as they please for 4 years and then using OUR money to bribe us into voting for them in the run in to an election.
      This isn't a judgement of the current government (they haven't been in power yet to judge), but every government for the last 50 years haes worked this way. How else can you explain why we gave Thatcher's Tories 18 years and Blair's Labour 13?
    • JennaE  •  4 months ago
      crooklands - 250,000+ unborn children are deliberately aborted every year. I would say for sure that abortion & unborn children are sadly very much linked. The fact you don't see any link is sadly representational of society, who largely don't care if children under 6 months of age are butchered to death.
    • tootruetotell  •  4 months ago
      It's hard enough dealing with the present without inventing hypothetical scenarios. Future generations have got to have something to do. Or will it all turn out...it's THEIR fault. Any excuse for failure will do. More tripe
    • Steve  •  4 months ago
      Please let's not mock the Greens too much.
      They may have a purpose in life.
      As the only political party that is even remotely left of centre, they could take the votes of disenchanted Labour supporters, or even poach the finance of some Unions away from Ed Miliband.
      That can't be bad, can it?
      Start biggin' 'em up.
    • CHRISRINE LAMBERT  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      What a load of claptrap! It`s more than enough to cope with the here and now without tying to plan for future generations. We are not getting it right for ourselfs as it is.I am still on Earth arnt I? because I feel as though I`m floaing in a green mist again. not just our Cricket team that as a barmy army then.
    • puddlejumper  •  Maidenhead, England  •  4 months ago
      Give them their say. A bit rich when folks come on here calling for the right to kill them later and later....BUT, if you ill treat a dog, oh god the world comes to an end and mass hysteria breaks out.
    • Clip  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      Wayne, Unborn children aren't listed at all on any noted legally binding jargon as parasites. Where did you get your list from 'bankers r us'? In fact the law does recognise then as existing children, it just permits lawfull killing if 2 doctors agree birth risks life more than abortion. Which it only does in 0.00000001% of cases, but doctors are always prepared to lie to cover their buts from being sued & mislead that all qualifyl.

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