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    Talking Politics

    Can London stop the SNP’s independence referendum?

    Photo: AFP/Getty ImagesLondon may have seized the initiative in the Scottish independence referendum debate, but it has by no means made certain it will get its way.

    Yesterday the Scotland Office launched a consultation paper on Scotland's constitutional future, outlining the way in which it proposes to give the people of Scotland their say on this key issue for the United Kingdom's future.

    Its biggest play is its attempt to scotch, once and for all, the distinction between a 'binding' and an 'advisory' referendum. This, according to Scotland Office officials, is nothing but a red herring. Whitehall lawyers believe they have a cast-iron case which they believe would stand up in the supreme court: any referendum held by the Scottish parliament would be illegal, full stop.

    That would be a huge setback to the Scottish National party, which has been sniffing around the issue of an advisory referendum for some time. Take its 2007 paper on the issue: "At present the constitution is reserved, but it is arguable that the scope of this reservation does not include the competence of the Scottish government to embark on negotiations for independence within the United Kingdom government". Today Alex Salmond cited the leading Scottish constitutional textbook to suggest that the UK government's position might be contestable, after all. Supreme court, here we come.

    The legitimacy of a referendum held under the aegis of the Scottish parliament is the first battleground being fought over. But it is merely an opening gambit in the game now being played out in Edinburgh and London. Establishing the illegality of a Scottish parliament referendum merely opens up the next phase of the struggle. It is the necessary precursor to London dictating the terms of the referendum to Holyrood.

    The motivation for this is utterly political. All three Westminster parties want to keep Scotland part of the UK. By controlling the rules of the game before it is even begun, they hope to make it that much harder for the SNP to win over the Scottish people to their way of thinking. That is why Salmond is so determined to resist the imposition from above.

    There are two critical conditions under which the coalition government would permit a referendum to take place. Firstly, that the ballot paper only offers the voter two options (not the three preferred by the SNP). And secondly, that "the date of the poll must be no later than ***". The asterisks are yet to be filled in, but the UK government says it would prefer the backdate to be "sooner rather than later" - around 18 months, probably. Again, that is viewed as being against the interests of the nationalists. The SNP has always tried to put off a referendum until as late as possible in its parliamentary term, which ends in 2016. Yesterday evening Salmond indicated he would prefer autumn 2014.

    The Houses of Parliament in Westminster, as well as both governments and the Scottish parliament in Holyrood, would all have to agree for this to take place under the terms of a section 30 order stemming from the Scotland Act 1998. That means the SNP could block the London government's preferred solution. Its resistance could be futile, though. If it won't play ball there is a fallback option - of amending the Scotland bill currently working its way through Westminster.

    There remain many question-marks which are not yet resolved. Most obviously, can Salmond's clear indication of resistance succeed? If push comes to shove, could he attempt to go ahead regardless? There is a legitimacy gap between what is legally acceptable and what is politically acceptable, after all. So perhaps the SNP could get away with pressing ahead with a referendum, in outright defiance of the UK government's legal arguments.

    If that did happen the UK government's best course of action might be to block the referendum from taking place at all. But, as always, the government's lawyers are utterly confident in their ability to win in the supreme court. Critically, when aspects of Scottish legislation have been challenged in the past their implementation has been delayed. They would hope the same would apply when it came to a referendum. But even here there are no guarantees this would definitely be the case.

    The Scottish independence referendum was never going to be simply a case of a reasoned, rational debate about the future of the United Kingdom. Long before the official contest starts, the two sides are already at loggerheads.

    Yesterday's move by London is aggressive and confrontational. If the SNP follows through on its initial suggestions that it will take on the might of the Whitehall law machine this referendum could become as well known for the legal struggles surrounding it as for the terms of the debate itself.

    The opening salvo has been fired. The SNP must decide whether to roll over and accept bullying from London, or back its initial fighting talk with a determined struggle which could irretrievably muddy the terms of its referendum campaign. It is not an especially edifying choice, whichever way you look at it.

     
    • JackB  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      The powers-that-be do not like referendums. Referendums are, by their nature, democratic. More or less so depending upon the way the powers pushed to have one frame the question.

      Our Dear Leaders have their agendas and democracy interferes with these. So, whenever they promise or call for a referendum, you can be sure it's nothing to do with letting the proles 'have their say' and everything to do with achieving the required result.
    • brian  •  Linlithgow, Scotland  •  4 months ago
      This is working a treat isn't it? Start a futile independence debate and set scot against englishman & vice versa. Meanwhile we are taking our eye off the real debate which is how to get a partty going that actually listens to the people and get rid of these cnuts that currently inhabit westminster and take their banker led agendas with them. Arguing about the split in the debt is irrelevant, we are all collectively in deep #$%$ because the utter incompetence of our rulers over the past 3 decades and their insistence in swallowing Eurocrap over and above what we originally signed for. Why do you think Cameron suddenly thrust this to the top of the Agenda from nowhere? To take the heat off
      • No More Faith 4 months ago
        Trouble is Brian Scotland do this all the time. From here you just look like attention seekers. Everything we do Scotland insist on being part of. Not the other way around. Its like living with a spoilt child having Scotland in the Union.
      • Paddy Howe 4 months ago
        Brian. Another view point. Interesting.!
      • brian 4 months ago
        NMF- you may be confusing Scotland with Salmond. Whilst far from stupid, he no more speaks for the Scots than Cameron speaks for yer average Englishman on the street or dole queues he is doing his best to enlarge. There are a good number of reasons that the SNP are in power up here, the independance element of their offering is small part of that, and a referndum at any time would show this to be true. They have benefitted massively from the uselessness of the three traditional party choices, but to be honest although I would never vote for them ina million years, they aren't doing badly all things considered. The one thing they are better at is taking note of their own peoples interests and promoting them, and are not interested in wars for oil, pandering to the septics or other imperialist aims. Cameron could learn from that. But fighting with each other isn't the answer.
    • AG  •  Weybridge, England  •  4 months ago
      What's the big deal? A referendum will let people say what they want. It's also not the end of the story. If it's 'no' today it could turn to 'yes' in future, as voting trends in Scotland might suggest. If it's 'yes' today, both countries would still have to sit down and work out what happens next, for the good of all concerned, not the agenda of one or more political party.
      I like someone else's suggestion on here that a reappraisal of the UK as a state should happen anyway. No two ways about it, it's London-centric and South East-biased. More attention should be paid to serving the people of Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, but also the North of England and other areas frequently treated as backwaters of England.
      • R 4 months ago
        Cameron trying to piss the Scots about will only make them much more likely to vote for independence and quite rightly too.
      • Joe 4 months ago
        Well said ag I'm scottish have lots really good english freinds, and I'm starting to like the idea of independance. But like you said the people of england ( who in my opinion are taking this a bit to personally ), should remember that the tories have a poor trak record when it comes to the inner towns and cities in the north of england.
    • Billy  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      Lets remember the most recent wars Britain has been involved in they were supposed to be for people's democratic right to decide who they want to run their country. If British governments want to export that type of democracy then allow the Scottish People to decide and dictate their own destiny.
      • ODDBIN 4 months ago
        BILLY, The recent wars were nothing to do with democracy nor will the next, with Iran be. They were and it will be in order to continue the profitabilty of the USA's most powerful political lobbyist group. The Industrial/Military complex which seemingly has effective control over the wishes of it's President; Congress and ordinary citizen's wishes. It has destroyed Iraq, one of the world's oldest civilisations, it has created a situation in Afghanistan that will explode soon into a hotbed of potential anti-western confrontation. It has instigated the collapse of Libya into a country of warring tribes, at each other throats until limited effectively by Gaddafi and now it's loud-mouthed politicians in the run-up to next year's Presidential election may well trigger off a conflict between Israel and Iran that will make the last three look insignificant in comparison.
      • Realworld 4 months ago
        Yes Billy, without my tax money
      • Realworld 4 months ago
        Yes, and the 10,000 jobs would be in the south, thank you.
    • kevin  •  Hounslow, England  •  4 months ago
      what our politicians forget is that they work for the electorate,we placed them in power and as a so called united nation we can damn well un-elect them if needed only under a dictatorship do we work for the government, (by force) do we live in free country or under a dictatorship , more and more people have started double thinking and state things like they would give up liberty for freedom its the god same thing ,A sign of a nation under a dictator what right does london have to DICTATE to a nation across a border. things are getting out of hand (My opinion of course)
      • KENDRA 4 months ago
        lol we are not even proper British Citizens, we are subjects of Her Majesty.
      • A Yahoo! User 4 months ago
        kendra-- can`t expect the english to know the difference;been listening to blair for
        too long. marcus
    • Alvaro  •  4 months ago
      Why would London fight against the independence of Scotland? if Scotland was independent from the UK, then the conservative party would hold confortable majorities for generations. I can understand the laborist party resisting ...but Mr Cameron?
      • jean 4 months ago
        Maybe he believes what he says.
      • kelvin allanj 4 months ago
        Alvaro - Scotland cannot be independant from the UK - Scotland and England ARE the UK. Scotland is not thinking of leaving - they are thinking of ending the union that has lasted since Elizabeth 1 died.
    • Richie Rich  •  Newton Abbot, England  •  4 months ago
      No wonder Scotland want independence from the Uk, with all the Mp's in London have their hands in the till. :0)
    • Billy  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      If Scotland is such a burden to English taxpayer - who I believe have been fooled by many a government to thinking Scotland are sponging - then WHY do these Eton politicians resist the will of the Scottish people ? Why hold onto Scotland if it is such a burden ?
    • Baz  •  Manchester, England  •  4 months ago
      Funny how the English government roll out the constitution now. Pity they didn't do so in 1973 and keep us free of the euro dictatorship.
    • 3.10toYuma  •  Sheffield, England  •  4 months ago
      If the Jocks get a referendum on quitting the UK after 300 years, it's gonna be hard for the government to explain to English people why they can't have a referendum on quitting the EU. And isn't it odd how being Scottish Nationalist is quite chic and fashionable, but if you say you're an English or British nationalist, you're immediately rubbished as a far right nut job ?
      Double standards or what?
    • Jazza  •  Rothesay, Scotland  •  4 months ago
      Every time the question of Scottish Independence is raised, there is always some complete bell who wheels out the old 'ginger, alcoholic, heroin addict, benefit sponger' stereotype. If you can't contribute any meaningful comments, then just butt out and stop slinging racism around.
    • GB  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      The law in this case will be shown to be an #$%$ Cameron's manoeuvering is unedifying and will create a backlash. I am English, I hasten to add, but wish the Scots what they wish for themselves. Anything else would be tiny minded.
    • Ray  •  4 months ago
      Can London stop the SNP’s independence referendum?
      Is England a City in the country of London because it is all about London London London
    • Ryan  •  4 months ago
      Why stop them? Many English people would love to see Scotland leave the UK. Many English people want England to leave the UK and EU. England needs it's own referendum.
    • Jimmy  •  Bedford, England  •  4 months ago
      Independence for England? How about a referendum for us? We know how much Dave loves democracy and all that...................................................
    • Geordie  •  Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea  •  4 months ago
      Very simple if the Scottish people want independence who are the English MPs in London who think they can stop it. The lastest moves and rhetoric from London are only encouraging more Scots to support the SNP decision.
    • IAN  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      Would Liam Fox be so keen on a Trident replacement if it had to be relocated from Holy Loch to a Conservative constituency? Plymouth?
    • TERRY  •  4 months ago
      good luck to the scots at least they vote with there heads and hearts. we English should do the same vote for the English democrats for a better and brighter future for the English
    • martin m  •  Edinburgh, Scotland  •  4 months ago
      The SNP clearly stated in their election manifesto to "hold a referendum on Scottish independence in the second half of this parliament". The Scottish people returned them with a thumping majority, moreover, a majority that had supposedly been technically impossible in a system designed by the opposition to prevent just this eventuality. Which bit doesn't Cameron understand?
    • douglas f  •  London, England  •  4 months ago
      It is of course always interesting to read the views of those outwith our borders regarding events here. Given the respect Cameron, Clegg and Miliband are held in Scotland, no doubt their views will be suitably influential...............

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