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    Talking Politics

    Our pious politicians are out of step with the people

    By Terry Sanderson

    I'm sure Baroness Warsi's speech to the Pontifical Ecclesiastical Academy in Rome yesterday was very well-received by its audience. She promised to support the Pope in his desire to return Christianity to the centre of public life in Britain.

    It also seemed to chime with the mood of the media — which was fizzing with fury at the modest high court judgment ruling that it was not legal to include prayer on a council agenda — because it is not council business.

    Under extreme bombardment from the press, we at the National Secular Society were preparing to barricade the doors - until we noticed a sudden and unprecedented upsurge in membership applications.

    Something very strange was happening. The media was almost unanimous in its disapproval of the ruling. Strangely the Sunday Times alone gave unequivocal support to it — and in an editorial even suggested it should be extended to cover prayers in parliament.

    Another strange phenomenon is the disparity between what newspapers are writing above the line and what their readers are writing below it. Look at the reaction to Baroness Warsi's courting of the Pope in the Daily Telegraph — thousands of reader responses and a vast majority of them hostile to her behaviour.

    Then this morning comes the result of an Ipsos Mori poll commissioned by the Richard Dawkins Foundation which shows that, overwhelmingly, those people who ticked the 'Christian' box in the last census don't want religion to have any influence over public policy. That's 74% of self-defined Christians who do not agree with Baroness Warsi.

    She may be enthusiastic about religion, but this is not shared by the nation. The poll also revealed the 72% of people who said they were Christian in the 2001 census are nothing of the kind. They ticked the box because they thought they were good people or because their parents were Christian — very few of them actually believe in the precepts of Christianity, and even fewer actively practice it.

    So, who is out of step here? If you read the newspaper commentators it is most definitely the National Secular Society. But if you listen to the people, you'll find it is the pious politicians who seem to be threatening us with theocracy.

    Baroness Warsi had led a delegation of senior British government ministers to the Vatican to have a 20-minute chat with the Pope. She wants to assure him religion will be returned to the centre of public life, just as he called for on his recent trip to this country. She will assure him his visit was highly successful and its success must be built on.

    Unfortunately, it was not highly successful; it was not even slightly successful. A year after the visit, the Catholic Church commissioned a poll to see what lasting impact it had had on the nation According to the research, hardly anyone remembers that it actually happened. And 91% said it made no difference to their moral outlook at all. Strangely, the Church doesn't seem anxious to draw attention to the results of this poll, which was carried out by Opinion Research Business among 2,049 adults.

    In fact, 29% of those who were questioned said they couldn't remember hearing or seeing anything about the visit. Six per cent of those who say they did recall the visit happened say they can't remember a thing about it.

    Of the individual events — meeting the Queen, speaking in parliament, meeting the prime minister — typically only one per cent — or less — of those who had any memory of the visit recalled them (a few were up to five per cent).

    The biggest proportion of those who recalled anything about the visit (albeit only 11%) remembered the NSS' protest campaign about the enormous cost to the taxpayer.

    And as for the impact it had — 91% of respondents said the pope's visit made no difference whatsoever to their personal or spiritual values.

    Taking this into account - why is the British government courting the Holy See in this way? Why should the last absolute theocracy in Europe be invited to participate in the affairs of the British government?

    The Holy See participates — indeed in some cases, interferes - in every other government's affairs. Only last week it succeeded in forcing president Barack Obama to compromise his health reforms and in Britain it is gearing up to give the Cameron plan for gay marriage a real kicking.

    Warsi talks of "militant secularism" with some distaste. But secularism's militancy is as nothing compared with the aggressive tactics of the Catholic Church when it is not getting its way.

    And besides, as the Dawkins poll illustrates quite plainly, secularisation is a process people choose for themselves. Taken together with the Church's own plummeting attendance figures, it clearly shows people are voting with their feet. If they do not believe the precepts of a religion, why should a government try to force it upon them? Religion only has value if it is freely chosen. Coercion kills it stone dead.

    Baroness Warsi may be a woman of principle, but she is swimming against a very strong tide that is not controlled by the NSS or by the Church of England or the Holy See or anyone else. The turning away from religion is a choice the public has made of their own volition and using their own conscience. It is not the government's job to tell them they are wrong.

    Lady Warsi risks starting a culture war she cannot win and neither can the Conservative party. If religion is given too much if a say in our day to day life, then there will be a reaction David Cameron will not like. It will take place at the ballot box.

    Terry Sanderson is president of the National Secular Society.

     
    • selina  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      I to have had my comments on various subject erased so it is a waste of time to make a post.our views are not of the line that the site wants to show...I am at the point it is not worth reading the site so think again before bothering to read the site.
      • Phoenix 3 months ago
        God did it, not Yahoo.
      • Ian 3 months ago
        Political correctness. They say other countries don't have freedom? Think about this when you're told you're in the land of the free!
      • SUSAN 3 months ago
        @ Rose - I think the only way forward currently with Yahoo is to keep posting regarding this over a period of time, and see if we see any change. It would be nice to see some comment from Yahoo here, as to their side of the story?
    • SUSAN  •  Ilford, England  •  3 months ago
      I am absolutely fed-up with having my posts here deleted for no apparent reason - Yahoo need to stop doing this, it only appears that they are doing this to manipulate the debate.
      • Kenneth 3 months ago
        their do it because they are facists you have every right to say exactly want you think is right
      • Ian 3 months ago
        Say what you like? Except it won't be published?
      • HairyNuts 3 months ago
        Yahoo! are fascists, like most news agencies (or their parasites). If you don't say what makes them feel more secure about the muck they peddle as 'fact' then they punish you with a gagging order. I sympathise with your comments, but maybe the reason it upsets us is because we believe posting responses here will change something, and we want change so badly. But to be honest, the way I see it, posting here only serves to make yahoo! feel more like it has a product worth its advertisers paying for. Nothing changes when the profits of its sponsors are the reason something like this exists in the first place, I'm afraid. They're all in it together, whether they realsie/admit it or not. The last thing they need is for us to feel like we might be in something antithetical to them together, hence the censorship. It makes us feel more isolated and disempowered than we actually are.
    • B  •  3 months ago
      Religious extremism has always been a terrible blight on mankind. Its a form of bullying. In the past it was Christianity, now its Islam. People need to be able to stand up to these people without fear. The media make it harder.
      • Teed 3 months ago
        Secularism is itself a kind of religion - and I don't like being bullied by secularists!
      • Andrew 3 months ago
        How is it a religion exactly. Secularists want the seperation of Church and state and many believers agree with them. Wanting religion (all religion) not to take over the running of the country is not a belief system, it is common sense.
      • Lightf00t 3 months ago
        It is a religion, just like global warming.
    • A J  •  Liverpool, England  •  3 months ago
      Never a shortage of people believing that they have the right to tell me how to live my life.
      • JAMES 3 months ago
        AJ just do as you're told O.K. !!!
    • Sir “Jock” Strappe  •  Isle of Iona, Scotland  •  3 months ago
      Warsi.............was she elected? who does she represent? what is her job?
      • Phoenix 3 months ago
        A. No,
        B. the cabinet,
        C. minister without portfolio.
      • Sir “Jock” Strappe 3 months ago
        Many thanks for the answers, I didn't know who or what she was.
      • Phoenix 3 months ago
        I still don't!
    • isiah  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      Pious Politician, a classic oxymoron.
    • fed up with politicians  •  Reading, England  •  3 months ago
      When I was a serving member of the armed forces three things were never discussed in the mess, Religion, politics and someone's wife or girlfriend. My faith is my concern and I should be allowed to practice it as I see fit. It has no place in politics. Likewise politics should not be involved in religion. Possibly why I don't think clergy should be involved in the house of lords.
    • Amethyst velvet  •  3 months ago
      I presume the Secular Society are giving all religions in this country the same treatment. Funnily enough, they seem awfully quiet on the religions of Islam, Hinduism, jewish, etc.,or is it just the Christian religions which are deemed such a threat to mankind's sanity?
      I smell an agenda here and yet another nail hammered into the coffin of England and the English way of life by the PC brigade. Perhaps the Secular Society will be telling Islamic believers not to spend so long in prayer every day. Something, somehow tells me that won't be happening!
    • Sir “Jock” Strappe  •  Isle of Iona, Scotland  •  3 months ago
      Faith is a private thing. If you wish to worship communally then we have churches, synagogues mosques etc etc for that purpose.
    • kingsland  •  3 months ago
      If you want to force something through Parliament then you don't ask groups opposing the bill, to attend those meeting, especially if they know what they are talking about. Nor do you invite them to sit on an independent commission, or a Revue. The government only want like minded people or people they know they can turn to attend. That way it looks as if they actually care so when the report is made public, they can say they have listened to the people, and that is called spin.
      This Government has never allowed free speech, or done what the people have asked them to, nor will they take notice of the people of this country, until something political happens.
      Had Governments over the years done what the people had asked, then immigration would have stopped back in the 70and 80, the big bang would never of happened, Europe wouldn’t have happened, and we would now have our own laws, and not European laws that exist today, Europe would have been a free trade area, and we wouldn’t be in the mess we are now. The country would never have done away with Hanging or life sentences, and we would still have a military that was strong, terrorists would be hung or deported without a whimper and our freedom would be sacrosanct under the Magna Carter and a bill of rights
      The People of this country have been proven right every time, on big issue’s, but politicians have not taken any notice of the people .The question therefore, is WHY have politicians never listened to the people ,The answer is simple, politicians hunger for power, and want to leave the rest of us, a legacy of their own ,they want to stamp their name on our lives’ ,and country, and to be mentioned in the history books ,they are self obsessed with their own immortality ,and only pay lip service to the people they serve. If Cameron wants to be known as the man who left disabled people on the streets, and who single handily destroyed our NHS, in order to get notoriety, then we cannot stop him, but his party can, and if they want to keep their own seats at the next election then they will have to stop him now, or the people will throw them all out ,and that other idiot the liberal leader and his sheepish followers ,at the next election and a new party will rise from there ashes’
    • FRANK D  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      There is no evidence that secular politicians are any more honest and trustworthy than religious ones
    • Rizwan Moulana  •  Ilford, England  •  3 months ago
      Warsi and Cameron should be concerned about the millions who are unemployed rather than going on a joyride wasting taxpayers money
    • John  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      Just once could the NSS attack Islam, probably the most intolerant and vicious religion in the world, including Britain, today. Or they scared they'll be at the sharp end of a Fatwa?
    • Puzzled  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      Our pious politicians are losing touch not only with the people but with reality. Best to get it right about Iran Mr Hague
    • Sir Percy Vere  •  3 months ago
      Politicians are only ''In Step'' for two weeks before polling day.
      After polling day it is ''Business as Usual''.
    • A St Andrean in exile  •  Edinburgh, Scotland  •  3 months ago
      "Our pious politicians are out of step with the people" NEVER!!! I would never have guessed.
    • Rtd Nurse  •  Norwich, England  •  3 months ago
      The only thing that these politicians pray for is larger expenses and that we are deadf dumb and blind to the rip offs.
    • dingo39  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      well i would rather see christianity ruling our lives in the uk than islam.
    • Quacker  •  London, England  •  3 months ago
      The National Secular Society likes nothing better than bashing the Christian church.
      on the bigotry of other faiths they are silent.
    • Spartacus  •  Edinburgh, Scotland  •  3 months ago
      Bone idle bafoons out to take as much as they can with very little in return, apart from their expenses sheets.

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