Yahoo News The Boys’ Susan Heyward Talks Sage’s True Endgame… and Her Queen Maeve Connection?
Warning: The following contains spoilers for The Boys Season 4 finale. Proceed at your own risk!
She’s the smartest person in the room… and the most mysterious one.
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As The Boys Season 4 came to a close, Sister Sage returned to Vought to congratulate Homelander on their plan’s success. Sure, there were some unexpected twists, but in the end, they got what they wanted: With President-Elect Robert Singer and his VP Victoria Neuman both out of the picture, Homelander’s ally Speaker of the House Calhoun was now President and quickly deputized supes nationwide, who will report to Homelander. But the Seven’s leader couldn’t help wondering why Sage would do all this after he broke their deal.
“To see if I could,” Sage answered bluntly. “Thank you. This was so much fun.” And it’s only the beginning of what she has planned.
Below, Sister Sage’s portrayer, Susan Heyward, talks about her character’s potential ulterior motives — might she be a sleeper agent?! — her choice of Queen Maeve notebook, and why she was “delighted” by Sage’s lobotomized hookup with The Deep.
TVLINE | In the finale, Homelander asks Sage why she did all of this, especially after he betrayed her, and she says, “To see if I could.” What did you make of that? And what do you think she got out of this experience?
I do resonate with the experience of being underestimated. I deeply resonate with the experience of being written off and people having very low expectations of you. So there’s something satisfying about having that moment for her. I think of how long she’s been alone, been isolated, been doing research and learning things, and going, “Oh, I could, I could.” How many times did she try to have a voice, to be heard, to be a positive addition to society, and how many times was she shot down? I definitely resonate with that on a personal level, and I think it puts the story in a really interesting place. It’s like how much of an agent of chaos is she? There’s always a question of her ulterior motive. So I think it’s an exciting place to kind of leave us.
TVLINE | Obviously, what Homelander is doing is not good, he’s not a good person, and she’s helping him, in many ways. Do you see her as being on the wrong side of things?
You know, I don’t. I think that question is one we’re supposed to be asking ourselves, both of Sage and, I think, of us. The show does such a great job of just kind of poking at the reality we find ourselves in, and it’s a great moment to be self-reflective [and ask] ourselves, “What part am I playing in empire, in degradation, in this political landscape that we find ourselves in?” And for this story, I’ve definitely seen people online having their own ideas, like, “No, no, no, she’s a sleeper cell. She’s actually for the Boys, she’s actually on the right side.” So it does double duty. It gives us a moment to ask ourselves what effective good and effective harm are we doing in the world, and it keeps us on our toes in the middle of the story with The Boys.
TVLINE | Do you think she actually cares about supe supremacy and Homelander’s agenda? Is her endgame the same as his?
Boy, that’s two big questions. I’ll answer the second question first about her endgame being the same as Homelander’s. To me, dubious. Mostly because she’s the one introducing him to this level of thinking. His level of thinking was to take over Vought and be in charge of that capitalist entertainment conglomerate, and I think Sage is the one who’s thinking on a higher level that she’s taking him to. So I would not lean towards their endgame being the same because she’s the one who’s kind of introducing him to a new landscape.
And then, that first question, I have to admit, I go back and forth, because part of the fun of Sage is you never really quite know what her genuine ideals are, and there’s definitely a part of me that hopes, for Season 5, we find out that it’s all been an act, and she actually is egalitarian and wants to protect humanity, as well. But it’s also really fun to get a different supremacist ideology, even a fictional one, because in the real world, the supremacist ideologies are pretty depressing to listen to. So at least this one is fake and can give us some entertainment.
TVLINE | There have been some uncanny similarities, obviously, with this season and recent events, and Amazon did issue a warning ahead of the finale about that. What was your response as things were playing out in real life, and the finale was about to come out?
The entire season, I’ve been sending [showrunner Eric] Kripke messages, like, “Yo, what crystal ball do you have in your closet?” Unfortunately, the things that we’re seeing aren’t happening for the first time. Being a student of history, being a student of politics, there are certain patterns that emerge, and for the folks who are interested in that kind of thing or interested in tracking it, where the U.S. finds herself is not as much of a surprise, unfortunately, as I would’ve hoped. Unfortunately, I was more saddened and disappointed to find the episode echoing real life as directly as it was, but — and this is maybe more Sage-like — I wasn’t as surprised, unfortunately. Disappointed and saddened, but not as surprised as I would’ve liked to have been.
TVLINE | Going back to the finale, did Sage intend for Victoria to die? Because if she did, that really casts a shadow over that conversation, that bonding moment, they had at Tek Knight’s party.
Mmhmm. Personally, I go back to something one of my brothers always said to me. He’s like, “You can always trust someone to be exactly who they are,” and I think when dealing with Homelander, as soon as Homelander felt like he could do this without her, I think Sage, stepping back, accepted that that meant anyone could go. I also think, again, when you look at patterns, when you look at the way these political things go, what she says about Victoria makes sense, where she says, “That one has a few too many ideas in order to properly be controlled.” Sage is so fun because she’s balancing how much she can orchestrate versus how much she can allow to have happen just by letting people be themselves. So I think Sage certainly resigned herself to losing Victoria far before the moment came and was ready when that moment came.
TVLINE | What do you hope Phase Two entails? That was a very ominous ending.
In a very Sage-like way, I have all of these different versions in my head. I have the version in my head where she goes for world domination. I have the version in my head where she flips and shows herself to be a champion of humanity, and she’s been just positioning herself to protect humanity this whole time. I have a version in my head where she’s a complete agent of chaos and just likes to keep pushing the table over. All of those sound fun to me as an actress. I’m open to all of them. But the writers’ room is open right now. I will find out probably when I arrive to set, and things will probably change again then. So I guess the answer to your question is, I hope it will reflect the world back to itself, clearly, and I know it’s going to be fun to play. I’m grateful.
TVLINE | Is there any significance to the fact that she’s writing out her plan in a Queen Maeve notebook? Was that something you talked about with Kripke or the props department?
I’ve talked to them, and I floated a couple of pitches. They have let me know they’re thinking of some things, as well, but nothing that I could share here. That’s for next season.
TVLINE | How was it playing those lobotomy scenes, and the scene at the party, where you got to be kind of childlike, eating that cake?
[Laughs] It was so much fun, such a relief. While I do resonate with Sage in some ways, the way we move through the world is very different. I’m pretty happy as a person, pretty grateful where life has taken me. So to get to drop her isolation, her loneliness, her cynicism for a while was always a relief. I was nervous about the cake moment. I was like, “I think this is funny.” But to see people have so much fun and enjoy seeing Sage be silly in that moment, I get another piece of evidence to trust the writers, and to trust Kripke, and trust our directors, that that moment of relief was as enjoyable for the audience as it was for me.
TVLINE | I’m one of those people who can’t even watch other people put eye drops in their eye. It freaks me out. How were you with the lobotomy scene?
I’ve been using contacts since I was a teenager. So things towards my eyes, I’m like, “Give it to me.” But I do have to say, aside from that, we have an Emmy-winning stunts team that’s absolutely incredible, and they took us step by step through what tool we would use, how close it would actually get to my eye. It never really got closer than maybe, I’m going to say, five inches to my actual eye, and then using camera angles, using special effects, using sound effects, we made it look it went closer. Maybe two inches, but it never actually touched my skin, never actually touched my eye. There was at least 10 people surrounding us at all times, from all angles, telling us what needed to happen so that special effects could go the rest of the way. So we were totally protected. It was incredibly fun to do on set because I feel like it was a moment where both the crew and the audience’s imaginations filled in whatever gaps that we weren’t able to do for real. That was incredibly fun, and, luckily, my bad sight prepared me to do what was necessary.
TVLINE | I felt like that was her Boys moment, as in every character has that weird, out-there scene on the show, and you’re not officially a part of the show until you’ve done something totally nuts.
I was so excited to read it because one of the things that makes the show stand out is not only the graphic nature of the show, but the psychological, messed-up things they do with sex and violence. Because deep down, human nature is really messed up, and the fact that Amazon is allowing these creative people to realize there is no envelope…. I used to say, “Push the envelope,” but there’s absolutely no envelope. Like, “Yes, I’m really here! I got my weird psychologically messed-up sex scene!'” I was delighted when I read it.
TVLINE | As I was looking at your IMDB page, I saw that you were on some episodes of The Following. Did you and Valorie Curry [who plays Firecracker] overlap, at all, on that show?
We certainly did. Our scenes were together.
TVLINE | So you already knew each other coming into this.
Yeah. When the announcement came that Valorie was going to be on the show, I was dancing in my living room. I was like, “Yes, we’re going to be back together!” It’s such a beautiful, full-circle moment. She’s so fabulous, she’s so incredible. I got to be there on set in Season 4 the first day she was filming, and as always, she came, and she knocked it out of the park. It was just a beautiful moment for our past to kind of infuse this present moment with so much meaning and so much fun. We got to be the new kids on set. But we were like, “OK, we come from the same place. We’re going to be OK,” and it ended up being so much fun.
TVLINE | What was it like working with Antony Starr as Homelander? Because he is so terrifying in the role, and I mean that in the best way possible.
Oh, it was amazing! When you’re with someone who dedicates themselves that much to their role and can do it, it’s not a thing that a lot of people are capable of doing, to let yourself go to that dark place… It’s like getting in the ring with an incredible boxer. It only makes you stronger to have to try and keep up. So I’ve learned so much from watching him on set, and it was literally something I had hoped for when the first season came out. I was watching with my husband, and I pointed to the TV, like, “Babe, I would love to be on this kind of show. I’d love it,” and a few years after that, I was like, “Hmm, a villain. I’ve never really gotten to play someone like that.” So this experience of being on the show has been about the power of intention, the power of putting in your work, and then really being open to ask for what you really want, and then having it presented to you in such a way that you just want to do your best to show up, and that’s what working with Antony is like. You just want to bring your absolute best to keep up with that guy.
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TVLINE | I find their scenes so fascinating because she doesn’t appear to be scared of him, at all, even though she doesn’t have a physical superpower to fight him.
Mmhmm. I feel like it’s one of those things where Sage is smart enough to understand people’s nature, even though she doesn’t necessarily give them, emotionally, what they need, and when you’re dealing with someone who’s Homelander’s psyche, as soon as you give them a whiff of fear, they’re going to go for the jugular. They’re going to go for blood. And so, I think it’s strategic on her part. Whether or not she’s fearful of him, she cannot operate if he gets a whiff of that. No way.
The Boys fans, hit the comments with your Sister Sage theories!
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