Option to cut Welsh region to be discussed as WRU boss grilled in live TV interview

WRU executive director of rugby Nigel Walker appeared on Scrum V on Sunday night to face a series of questions about the state of Welsh rugby, what's happening with the Union's much-anticipated review into the game in Wales and the future of the four regions.

Walker gave a stark overview of the current situation, admitting professional rugby as a whole is not sustainable at its current level. He admitted the option of cutting a Welsh region "will be discussed at the appropriate time" but may not necessarily happen. He does believe, though, there is a path to success for Welsh rugby over the coming years.

Here's the transcript of the key points in the interview with Scrum V.

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Where do you assess where the game is at in Wales?

"The 2023/24 playing season has been tough, on and off the field. There's no disguising that. This time last year, I said it would be tough for a year or two. It's going to be tough for a year or two. But it's not all doom and gloom. There are some shoots. There wee some positive performances yesterday. There have been some promising performances, particularly from the Ospreys, but those promising shoots have been few and far between.

"I don't agree with Tom. I don't think things will get worse. We've been working behind the scenes - 'we' being the WRU and the regions at PRB meetings and outside of that. We're making progress. We're not going to find £10/£20m over the next year or two, but there's the prospect of some uplift over the next year or two which I believe will make the regions competitive. Will they be on the budgets of La Rochelle and Leinster? No, absolutely not. But they'll be on healthier budgets than they are currently.

"We're working on a number of things. I've got to be careful here because these conversations are taking place behind the scenes. People will just have to trust me. We are working together to see how we can collaborate on a whole variety of areas that will put more money into the game which will mean those playing budgets could rise over the course of that six-year framework."

Is cutting a region a possibility?

"Is it on the table? It's obviously got to be an option which has to be considered and discussed. Which way we go - the PRB, the regions and the WRU - on that is yet to be determined. But of course, reducing to three regions has to be on the table. It doesn't mean it will follow and there will be three regions, because you have to get agreement and come up with a mechanism to going down from four to three. But it will be discussed at the appropriate time."

Is pushing one team financially more than others an option?

"We've talked over a period of time about 2+2, 3+1, 2+1+1 - there were all these permutations you could get and all those things are on the table. But my view is if you're going to bite the bullet and you think that four regions are not affordable, it would probably be better to bite the bullet and go to three so you've got certainty. Because 2+1+1, just to pick an example, is quite difficult. And to get from four to 2+1+1 would probably take more conversations than to get it to three. That's only my personal opinion. I'm only one person around the table. At the moment, we're at four and we're going to try make four work for the foreseeable future but of course the conversations around reducing the regions from four to three has to be on the table. Other options have to be on the table."

The strategy won't be ground-breaking then?

"Well, I think some of these things need more time to discuss. Yes, we are committed to producing a strategy and it'll be a high-level strategy I suspect on 30th June, with some further conversations to take place in the months that follow. But we will produce something. It'll be a high-level direction of travel, rather than contain all the answers. There isn't a silver bullet or an instant remedy which is going to correct all the ills of Welsh rugby in one go."

How bad are finances right now?

"It's tough but we're not alone in that. You've only got to read the annual reports of the other nations - whether it's New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, Scotland or England. Everyone is struggling at the moment. It's a tough sell. But we're all working individually and collectively to try and solve it. At the moment, the professional game is not sustainable at its current level."

How do you generate more income?

"That's what the discussion are about. That's why we're working collaboratively with the regions to see how we can leverage all of Welsh rugby to see how we can bring in more commercial sponsorship to make procurement easier and more beneficial. We're looking at everything. You have to drive costs down, that's one way of doing it. But you also have to try and raise revenue. We're looking at the central cost base of Welsh rugby and seeing where we can make changes. Because as you've just pointed out, it's not sustainable."

How much are WRU and regions culpable?

"I don't like apportioning blame. We're all to blame because over the last four years, we've all spent money that we didn't have. That's why the reset took place last year to make the game more sustainable. It's not pleasant and people don't like it, but if we didn't make the changes we're making, the game would go bankrupt - both at national and club level."

Did you take your eye off ball during the golden generation? It took the sexism scandal to bring about governance change?

"That's quite difficult to listen to when you categorise things in that way. But the honest answer is yes, we've been too slow to react. That's why we find ourselves in the position we are now and why we're taking the action we're taking. It's unpalatable and it's tough, but it has to be taken. If we didn't take the action we're taking now, in two or three years time, someone would be posing those questions about the regions and national team going bust, how did we get this far? we're taking action now and we have to take action now. We're taking it in a positive way, if you can take action like this in a positive way. We're trying to build the game and make it sustainable for the future."

What should the regions' budgets be?

"£4.5m is tough. That's what is affordable at the moment. If you asked me that question two years ago, I'd have probably said it needed to be about £7m/£7.5m. That figure is significantly less because of the challenges all the other nations are facing. I think if we could get our regions to £5.5m/£6m, then they could be competitive. That's not to say they'd have the same budget as La Rochelle or Leinster, but they could build a squad.

What is the role of CVC after their investment in rugby?

"There is no silver bullet from anybody. CVC are around the board table at the Six Nations and URC and they're contributing to conversations. But they don't have any instant panacea for the ills of rugby. They've put money in, they're expecting a return on that money. At the moment, they're not getting a return on that money so clearly they're interested contributors to the conversations taking place."

The URC/Anglo-Welsh league issue

"We're signed up to a contract for the next few years. We're not in the habit of breaking contracts. But conversations are taking place because, somehow, competitions have to work for everybody. Whether it's the PRL in England, or the URC for us, Italy, Scotland and Ireland, it has to work commercially and appeal to fans. So conversations are taking place around those competitions as well."