Yahoo News Killer Mike and No ID Talk Collaborative Chemistry for ‘Michael’: ‘This Is Just Heart Art’
A few weeks ago, Killer Mike stood poised at the mic on stage at “The Tonight Show With Jimmy Fallon.” He was joined by acclaimed jazz pianist Robert Glasper and R&B singer Eryn Allen Kane for a stripped-down rendition of “Motherless,” a deeply visceral meditation on the grief he faced from losing his mother and grandmother. “Is this a blessing or a curse, or just some other shit?” he choked through tears streaming down his face. “No matter what, I’m numb as fuck ’cause I’m still motherless.”
It’s this type of bare vulnerability that supercharges “Michael,” the Atlanta rapper’s first solo outing in 11 years. Throughout his decades-long career, Mike has evolved from scene-stealing turns on OutKast projects into a bona fide hip-hop foreman, threading his music with a nimble balance of personal and political perspective. “Michael,” which was released in June, plays like an exposed nerve, going deeper than Mike has gone on prior records and serving as a testimonial of sorts, with Mike plumbing tales of growing up in Collier Heights with dexterity and clairvoyance.
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“I’m from an all-Black enclave in Atlanta so I write it from the African-American experience,” Mike tells Variety. “But it’s very much an American experience. This is as American as Langston Hughes or Norman Rockwell or a Zora Neale Hurston novel. It is very much rooted in the working class. And in the deep South, gospel and blues play a big part.”
The album is framed around the sounds of Southern gospel, replete with church organs and choirs. (In the video for “Yes!” Mike actualizes it, standing at the pulpit delivering a sermon.) To capture that aesthetic, he turned to No ID, the legendary producer who got his start working with Common in Chicago and has gone on to helm projects and songs for Jay-Z, Kanye West and John Mayer. Mike and No ID, who goes by Dion, first collaborated on 2008’s “God in the Building,” an exultant reflection on how faith can stoke determination, and again two years later on “Ready Set Go” featuring T.I.
Together, they helmed a record that examines the hardship of growing up in the South, a stark shift from the bombastic raps of Run the Jewels, Mike’s collaborative duo with El-P that’s been his main focus for the past decade. For their first-ever joint interview, Mike and No ID spoke with Variety about how they approached making “Michael” and why telling your truth on a record can be the highest form of art.
How was it collaborating on a full-length album instead of a few tracks here and there?
No ID: It was different. The other stuff was like, “Hey I got a beat! Want me to fix that record?” Not hey, let’s make a piece of art. It was more like, here’s some art, fix it as art.
Killer Mike: I’d agree with that sentiment.
What are your earliest memories of each other’s work?
Killer Mike: Common Sense, it isn’t even a question. I’m a kid that grew up in the deep South and was a fan of lyricism, having [been] influenced by East Coast music. Just to give a nod to Common, Common was a unique breed of groundwork Chicago with the flair of East Coast lyricism. But the sound that he and Dion created in the soundscape, made it accessible. It was blue-collar and not playing and dumbed down. It was high art. It wasn’t low-hanging fruit. It wasn’t pretentious. His soundscape is what made Common one of my favorite guys, that and the fact that nobody wants to try to diss Common. His diss records are incredible. I was like, “I would not want to beef with him.” That’s it for me.
No ID: You know, being from Chicago, it was like a city where you just looked out to see everything that was going on. When the Dungeon Family first started, for me, it was like, I had to know everybody in there and what was going on. I was like, “Who is this Mike dude that keeps popping up over here and there?”
So every bit I could get my hands on, I would study, and that meant I had to study each and every person and figure out what people had styles, what people knew how to rap, what people had character, what having a character meant. And he developed the Killer Mike character. So by the time I met him, I think he was working on an album right when we met and I would go up to Purple Ribbon and I was still a people person too, so I wasn’t treating it like music. It was this guy that I just met. A good guy. Do I want to know this guy? I knew he knew how to rap, that’s what I knew.
How did you come together to work on “Michael?”
Killer Mike: Dion has been telling me forever, “Whenever you ready.” And I was like, I know I’m ready. So we hit him up and he had amassed this amazing fucking… You can’t even call it a mixtape, more like a soundscape of beats and ideas.
He said, “Just go do that and pick what you want.” So we snatched some, did those, and at the end of 39 records, we trimmed down about 19 records. We were like, “This is one of the best mixtapes I’ve ever heard in my life. How do we make this an album?”We knew we had exhausted every means and measures. And we was just taking our time going in and remixing shit, rethinking verses, and we got Dion’s music at this point, we was like, “We just going to come out and finna learn how to make an album.” And we went out and one of the first lessons we learned in terms of working in Atlanta versus working in Los Angeles is, studio time ain’t cheap.
You ain’t get no hookups so you use your time effectively and get pros, get the people who know what the fuck they’re doing. Once you find those pros, play the whole game with them. You build relationships. Whether it was [guitarist] Agape [Jerry], [bassist] Dammo, whether it was Fousheé or Blxst coming in, it was people coming in and taking the project seriously, the musicians giving it the best they had. And then Dion giving us permission to not try to have to get it perfect the first time.
I always thought people had formulas that you take in, but the formula is getting in the kitchen and cooking. What I learned is, be patient, don’t be afraid to start again. So I just learned how to make an album. That doesn’t mean I know how to do everything, but you gotta trust yourself to know when the thing’s being done and lean into that and don’t lean out of it with doubt or insecurity. I’ve learned truly how to make what a Killer Mike or Michael album is.
This album is musically rooted in the Black gospel tradition. There’s a lot of talk about church and references to God. Why was it important for you to capture the spirit of that sound?
No ID: You know, I have studied the great producers — because there are the great writers of music, there are the great musicians of music, and then there are the great producers of music. So as I studied more, [I looked at] the functionality of music in human beings’ lives. Because when we get through all the who’s number one and charts and this and that, what do you want to play?
It’s based on how you want to feel. So I knew who he was and you have no idea how many other people I have told, “Hey, make an album based off your name. Just let us know who you are.” Because that’s the cornerstone of it all. No matter how good you are, when people don’t know who you are, it’s hard to love you. It’s just easier to love what you do instead of loving you. So I knew who he was and I knew the gravitational pull in the South of those sounds.
The album emphasizes the idea of redemption through perseverance. Why was it important for you to really hone in on that on this record?
Killer Mike: Because that’s the only thing that’s true. Man, I’ve never pulled out a marathon but I’ve wobbled my ass through a 5K. That first mile, it’s a breeze. The second mile, oh ok. By the time you get to the third, you’re like, goddamn! So I can imagine what 26 is like. But after you done got 19 miles behind, you got seven miles left. I bet there’s no other time you want to fuckin’ quit more than that. You got more behind you, you put your leg in front of the other leg for 19 miles, and you got seven more in you.
That’s the way I’ve had to approach my career. No matter what happened, I did the art and motivation for art and motivation’s sake. In my mind, it’s steadily staying on, what is the next thing? This is one of the first times I’ve actually gotten to do the work to bask and enjoy and not work from a place of desperation or the need to meet a financial goal as much as is, this is just heart art. This is art directly from my heart because I know that there are men of the working class and women who love them who share this testimony.
The album is very personal and there’s so much of you in this record. Dion, did you have to coach Mike in any way?
No ID: I’m specific on words. I don’t think that I coached him. My job in general is always to inspire and influence, to dig deeper in yourself, because again, the album is “Michael,” it’s not “Dion.” If I started telling him what Dion thinks, that’s cool, but I can influence with Dion’s approach of thought. I can influence with, “Hey, look over there, what about over here?” Because, ultimately, the highest level of skill of a producer is allowing God to make you a vessel to help someone express and achieve.
Mike, you’ve largely been working with El-P for a good decade now. What was it like shifting gears and going into this record, particularly working with Dion and how that felt creatively?
Killer Mike: I’ve done this my whole career. I probably have one of the most diverse list of features. I just love rapping and I love flipping styles and understood what I said is not just a schtick. Run the Jewels is the uncanny X-Men. And it is a plethora of not just me and El. You got Zack de la Rocha, Gangsta Boo, Mavis Staples, Josh Homme pops up… You never know. The rhymes, although rooted in truth and pushing against some of the bullshit and advocating for certain shit socially, are still very superhero-based. There’s a level of fantasy about it, which is just fun as fuck.
But, there are certain truths that you hear in “Michael” as an origin story to the superhero Killer Mike that was just as easy to do in terms of, it’s what I love doing. So being one-half of Run the Jewels and arguably what’s going to be considered one of the greatest rap groups ever, is a hell of an achievement. But with that said, can I achieve more and expand the universe more?
When you look at a “Michael” album, which is a gospel-based album, a Southern Black experience working-class album, then you get the see the audience and the audience is full of Black and white people of the working class. The third show in Charlotte, a white guy came up to me and said, “I grew up dirt poor in Appalachia and I relate to every word you said” in terms of the gist of “Michael.” So for me, I want to go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as one-half of one of the greatest rap groups and as a solo artist. I think Ice Cube has that shot, I think I would like to have that shot. So it’s something I needed to express. It’s art I needed to make before I died and I’m glad I got about the business of doing it. And with that said, I’ll be locked in the studio on December 1 rapping again.
Is that when you start the next project?
Killer Mike: Yeah I’m going to start working on December 1. I don’t know what that’s gonna end up being but I just know I’m gonna start working December 1, we already booked the studio.
“Motherless” is such a powerful record. You’ve performed it on “Fallon” and on tour and you’re so vulnerable in front of so many people. What is that experience like for you?
Killer Mike: I think back to what Dion was just saying about as a producer, allowing himself to be used by God to affect other people for the positive and to push them. I think essentially, a record like “Motherless,” understands that it expresses longing and pain. But ultimately, what it does is allow people to express it and not feel alone and allow them to be spoken for. It allows them to experience the joy because ultimately, you end up thinking these good things and you smile. There’s a joy that comes with it. That’s just one of those records that comes through you. I can’t tell you I wrote that record. I did and stood in front of that microphone, but that’s even deeper because I don’t write. Everything I had never said, I said, and I realized by performing it that other people needed to say some of the same stuff.
No ID: That’s why I love to live. Think about it. Rap is 50 years old. What more are we talking about? We can only say so much, “I’m the best,” “I got the money,” whatever we saying. To make hip-hop be 100 years old, we gotta open it up. We gotta talk. We gotta figure out a way to not say the same thing. The best longest-living genres give people more than entertainment.
I made a playlist the other day, just all my favorite vulnerable songs I’ve been a part of and I realized that’s just what I like. So I felt at home even pushing him. He was like, “Hell no, I ain’t doing that.” Nah man, yeah you are. It’s about freedom. We got all this trauma locked up and we got all these good times locked up and we got all this vulnerability locked up. And we’re human beings and music is supposed to inspire us to have those moments to let loose a little, loosen the collar up.
Are you going to work together again when you go back into the studio in December?
No ID: I’ll let you think about that Mike.
Killer Mike: Who said we stopped working?
No ID: Somebody asked me about me working with him and the first thing I said was, “First of all, I’m helping my friend, number one. Second of all, we just working.” And when we worked, we rarely discussed business and all this stuff. It’s a spiritual endeavor. If it was free, we’d probably still do it.
Killer Mike: And you gotta remember, I just get a chance to hang around and talk shit with No ID and make dope raps. That’s it. Don’t let the 9-, the 12-, the 15-year-old, you don’t let that kid die.
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