Paula Vennells latest: Disgraced ex-Post Office boss breaks down during questioning

Disgraced ex-Post Office boss Vennells was questioned under oath about her role in the Horizon IT scandal.

Paula Vennells wept as she discussed subpostmasters who had died by suicide. (Post office inquiry)
Paula Vennells wept as she discussed subpostmasters who had died by suicide. (Post office inquiry)

Disgraced former Post Office CEO Paula Vennells broke down in tears several times during her first day of questioning in the Post Office Horizon inquiry.

She first broke down when she was asked about her 2012 claim to MPs that every prosecution of a subpostmaster had found in favour of the Post Office, and later wept and had to pause her evidence as she spoke about subpostmasters who died by suicide.

After detailing a number of cases in which the Post Office had not been successful after subpostmasters blamed the Horizon IT system, counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Why were you telling these parliamentarians that every prosecution involving the Horizon system had been successful and had found in favour of the Post Office?”

Read more: Five key claims about Paula Vennells ahead of inquiry appearance

Vennells said: “I fully accept now that the Post Office…" trailing off as she began to weep. “The Post Office knew that and I completely accept it.

“Personally I didn’t know that and I’m incredibly sorry that it happened to those people and to so many others.”

She also accepted that statements she made in letters to MPs in response to questions about Horizon were wrong.

Asked about occasions where she had assured MPs that the Horizon system was robust and that there is no evidence it had been at fault with respect to financial irregularities, Vennells said she “believed these statements to be true”, adding they were “justified by specialist knowledge, because I understood that these statements came from, or were approved by, senior specialist managers with detailed knowledge of the Horizon system and the operation of SPM accounts”.

Vennells added: “I accept that these statements were wrong”.

More than 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted by the Post Office and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015 as Fujitsu’s faulty Horizon IT system made it appear as though money was missing at their branches.

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  • Inquiry adjourned for the day

    The inquiry has been adjourned for the day, with chair Sir Wyn Williams thanking the public for their restraint as Paula Vennells gave evidence.

  • Vennells says other people may have known more than she did

    Ahead of breaking for the day, Post Office inquiry chair Sir Wyn Williams recalled a previously discussed briefing document that Vennells had received ahead of the select committee hearing.

    "Can I go back to that additional briefing document that you got the day before or during the morning of the select committee hearing - Mr Beer asked you questions on the basis of it was laying out a strategy for you," he said. "If I were to suggest to you that you were being advised to be very precise, very circumspect and very guarded about what you said - that was the effect of that document would you agree?

    Vennells responded: "I would Sir Wyn, I'm not sure I would have noticed that on the morning of the day."

    He said: "That was the effect that was trying to be created by those who created that doucment. Why?"

    Vennells said: "With hindsight.. possibly..." and was told she could respond to the question tomorrow morning.

    She said after a long pause: "I understand the question, at the time I didn't ask the question... it didn't cross my mind at all. This may be back to the point I made at the beginning of the day that I could be too trusting of people. I took the information I was given and went into a select committee...

    "But I find it very difficult because I knew the people who were producing that document but from what I know now maybe other people knew more than I did and they were trying to direct me to answer in a certain way."

  • Watch former subpostmasters respond to Vennells' evidence

    Former subpostmasters were filmed watching as Paula ennells gave evidence to the Post Office inquiry.

  • Vennells says there was 'ongoing question' over remote access

    Asked about a 2015 email in which Paula Vennells said she needed "the facts" about whether Horizon could be accessed remotely, Vennells told the Post Office inquiry there was an "ongoing question" over remote access.

    Despite saying that she didn't fully understand that Horizon could be accessed remotely until after she left the company, Vennells said in the 2015 email ahead of her appearance before a select committee: "I need to say no it is not possible."

    Asked why she had needed to say publicly that remote access was not possible, Vennells said: "I expected that this might be a question that you have explained before that might come up, and my understanding was that it was not possible so I wanted to be able to say that."

    "But why did you need to say 'no it is not possible'?" asked counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC.

    Vennells replied: "I phrased the... I phrased this point very specifically and I can remember why I did this. Alice Perkins, not related to this particularly, but I can remember Alice Perkins saying to me at some stage: 'Paula if you want to get the truth and a really clear answer from somebody, you should tell them what it is you want to say very clearly and then ask for the information that backs this up'."

    Beer responded: "That's an odd way of going about things isn't it? I want to know the answer to the question - here's the answer to the question, tell me I'm wrong."

  • Vennells said she didn't fully understand that Horizon could be accessed remotely

    Paula Vennells, former Chief Executive Officer of the Post Office, arrives at Aldwych House, where the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry continues, in London, Britain, May 22, 2024. Reuters/Maja Smiejkowska
    Paula Vennells, former CEO of the Post Office, said she did not fully understand that the Horizon system could be accessed remotely. (Reuters/Maja Smiejkowska)

    Paula Vennells said she didn't understand until she left the Post Office that Horizon systems could be accessed remotely.

    "I don't think I ever understood they could be used for remote access... until I left the organisation," she said.

    Counsel for the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked her if she would agree that a 2017 briefing from Deloitte states that Fujitsu could access an account without the subpostmaster.

    Vennels said: "Yes, that is exactly what it says."

  • Vennells asked why Horizon 'folklore' circulated around Post Office

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked Paula Vennells why a number of “false statements” or “folklore” about Horizon were circulating within the Post Office.

    Beer put to her that the Post Office falsely believed that every time it went to court it won, that there were no faults in Horizon and that there was no remote access for Fujitsu.

    Vennells responded: “At the time they were not considered to be false statements. The source of those statements, I can’t recall clearly, but on something like this the only possible source of this statement would have been through the Post Office legal team.

    “So the answer for all of them would be to look for where the expertise sat within the organisation as to the genesis of what we now know are false statements.”

    Beer asked if it is a “serious issue” if “folklore develops” which has “no foundation in fact”.

    Vennells said: “I agree.”

    Beer also asked if it says something about the culture of the Post Office if “such folklore developed or was perpetuated and nobody checked the real facts?”

    Vennells replied: “That’s a difficult question to answer because in hindsight it is completely valid. At the time, certainly where I was concerned, I believed that I was getting information from the people who were employed to give me the best advice because of their expertise. I didn’t believe that any of those things were folklore at all.”

  • Vennells says she accepted that a report from E&Y showed remote access to Horizon was possible

    Vennells was asked if she accepted that she read a 2011 letter from Ernst and Young that warned that unauthorised or erroneous transactions could be carried out on Horizon that were not approved by subpostmasters - but said she did not understand this at the time.

    "I don't want to challenge because I don't want to seem like I am being defensive in any way about this. This was my first audit that i was involved in, of any kind actually, and I fully accept what the document said.

    At the time the focus was that the audit was late and had run over budget, she said.

  • Vennells told in email 'I do wonder what kind of God you worship'

    In an email from a former subpostmaster, Tim McCormack, Vennells was told her team had taken a "head in the sand approach".

    Vennells said she regrets that concerns raised by a former subpostmaster “took too long to address”.

    In 2015, Tim McCormack wrote to Ms Vennells warning her that he had “clear and unquestionable evidence of an intermittent bug in Horizon that can and does cause thousands of pounds in losses to subpostmasters”.

    Asked what she did after receiving this, Ms Vennells said: “I don’t recall.”

    Amid gasps from those in the room, she went on: “Genuinely, I don’t recall.”

    She later added: “In hindsight I think he was right and I regret that the matters he was raising took too long to address.”

    A letter from McCormack warned Vennells that members of her team would go to prison, adding: "I do wonder what kind of God you worship."

    An email sent to Paula Vennells by a former subpostmaster. (Post Office inquiry)
    An email sent to Paula Vennells by a former subpostmaster. (Post Office inquiry)
  • Vennells admits her use of the word 'noise' about complaints was 'not a good word'

    Paula Vennells said she “regrets” using the word “noise” in association with complaints launched by subpostmasters about the Horizon IT system.

    Asked at the inquiry into the scandal if “noise” was what complaints were seen as at the top end of the Post Office, Vennells said: “No, and I’m sorry it is not a good word but you have also seen how I have responded personally to other individual matters.

    “It is a word I regret using.”

    Asked if it reflected the “workings of the minds” of those at the top of the business, Vennells said: “I think it reflects a wrong understanding yes that people believed that Horizon worked and this is me deploying a word that was unwise.

    “I did not in any way mean that I personally did not take seriously issues when they got to me.”

  • Five things we learned from Paula Vennells’ appearance at Post Office inquiry

    Paula Vennells, former Chief Executive Officer of the Post Office, arrives at Aldwych House, where the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry continues, in London, Britain, May 22, 2024. Reuters/Maja Smiejkowska
    Read the key moments from this morning as Paula Vennells appears before the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry. (Reuters)

    The five key moments from Paula Vennells’ first morning of evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry.

    Read the full story from The Telegraph.

  • Vennells said Post office was 'unfair' to maintain there were no issues with Horizon

    Paula Vennells has said it was “completely unfair” of the Post Office to maintain that there were no systemic errors in Horizon.

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked if a “frequent refrain” of the Post Office in 2014 was that there were no systemic errors in Horizon.

    Vennells replied: “It was, and it was wrong… it was completely unfair to use in the business.”

  • Post Office victim says Paula Vennells will 'never' shed as many tears as he did

    Lee Castleton has said Paula Vennells will “never” shed as many tears as he has.

    Castleton, from Bridlington, East Yorkshire, was found to have a £25,000 shortfall at his branch in 2004. He was made bankrupt after he lost his legal battle with the Post Office.

    Speaking about Vennells’ evidence, he said: “She’s got a huge opportunity to get what she sees as the truth out there.

    “I think it’s a huge stage for her, I think the paperwork is fantastic, to see what was being written at the time it’s really, really important for us to see that. And what she remembers really is kind of a background for me, the actual verbal evidence is not really that important.”

    Asked about Vennells breaking down in tears, he added: “She’ll never shed as many as I have, I’m afraid, or my family, or the rest of the victims or the wider group.

    “Not that I have no empathy for that because I do, I understand completely.

    “I’d imagine a lot of it’s nerves too and doing her best. I think she’s got a need or want to do the right thing.”

  • Vennells said it was 'understood in the Post Office generally' that legal cases were being won by Post Office

    Paula Vennells said it was "understood in the Post office generally" that the Post Office had won all legal cases in which subpostmasters claimed that the Horizon system was at fault.

    She also made such comments to MPs, and told the inquiry that she understood that to be the case when she made the comments.

  • Inquiry breaks for lunch

    The inquiry has broken for lunch and will return shortly

  • Vennells says she was told Horizon core was 'like a black box'

    Fujitsu Europe’s then-CEO described the core of Horizon like “Fort Knox” or an “aircraft flight recorder” when discussing remote access, Paula Vennells said in her first witness statement.

    Vennells and Fujitsu Europe’s then-CEO Duncan Tait concurred it was “implausible” that Post Office branch accounts could be altered remotely, Vennells said when detailing her understanding of remote access as of 3 July 2013.

    Vennells said she asked Tait if a Fujitsu colleague could alter branch accounts remotely, and said his response was no and “we concurred it was an implausible scenario”.

    She added: “Why would a Fujitsu colleague try to hack into a branch’s accounts? We couldn’t find any suitable explanation – there was no way they could benefit financially from such an action. The only possible reason would be a malicious act by a disgruntled employee.

    “Duncan described the core of Horizon like a black box, ie., similar to an aircraft flight recorder; he said that even if someone wanted to, it was not possible to alter or break it.

    “I had heard the black box description before. He described how secure the system was – that even if someone had the motivation, it just wasn’t possible – Horizon was like Fort Knox.

    “I found it reassuring that the CEO of Fujitsu confirmed that there was no cause for concern and that the system could not be tampered with.”

  • 'No tears when postmasters were being jailed' says postal workers union as Vennells weeps at inquiry

    The Communication Workers Union, which represents postal workers, tweeted its feelings after Paula Vennells broke down at the inquiry.

  • Vennells claims she treated all complaints 'in exactly the same way'

    Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells arrives to give evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry at Aldwych House, central London. Picture date: Wednesday May 22, 2024.
    Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells insisted she treated all complaints the same. (PA)

    Paula Vennells was asked about her personal interest in a complaint from a subpostmaster about Horizon - with the inquiry counsel asking Vennells if she responded because the subpostmaster was a "respected" magistrate who was also personally known to her.

    "I responded to all complaints in exactly the same way," she insisted.

    "i'm sure there were cases where that was not the case but I would have tried to approach them in the same way."

    Beer pressed her: "You personally responded to this complaint, not to others."

    "I responded when I could," she said. "When I could, I would... this had come in an email. Sometimes when complaints came in letters they went into a particular process."

    Beer asked: "So the fact that you responded to this one was not because Purvez [the subpostmaster in question] was respected?"

    Vennells responded: "Not at all."

  • Vennells asked about report that showed serious concerns about Horizon

    Paula Vennells was asked why she didn't read a report by consulting firm Detica that expressed "serious concerns" about Horizon - which she said she isn't sure she was aware of, adding that no one passed her the report.

    Vennells was asked if she had any clue why those who commissioned the report would want to keep it out of the hands of Vennells and the executive and the board.

    "No and... no I don't," Vennells said. "I don't recall either that they were colleagues that I would have suspected were withholding something from the board or myself or the group executive... I don't understand why the report didn't progress."

  • Vennells is giving evidence to room of people with 'eyes full of hatred' says former subpostmaster

    Former subpostmaster Janet Skinner said Paula Vennells is giving evidence to a room of people with “eyes full of hatred” as she expressed sympathy for the former Post Office chief executive.

    Skinner told the PA news agency on Wednesday: “I’ll be honest I felt quite emotional this morning.

    “I actually felt emotional for her because she is up there and she has got all these eyes there that are just full of hatred towards her and that must be such an overwhelming, horrible, intense feeling.”

    She said Vennells “has brought it all on herself” before continuing: “This is her time on that stand to now put her side of the story out there.

    “Everybody has chucked mud at her, it’s time for her to open up and be quite open and honest about who was at the forefront of it all.”

    Skinner was sentenced to nine months in prison in 2007 for false accounting. She was 35 at the time and had to leave her two children behind.

  • Vennells asked whether it was commonly understood that the Post Office prosecuted its own cases

    Paula Vennells was asked whether it was "commonly understood" by senior management that the Post office investigated and prosecuted its own cases.

    She was shown an email in which subpostmasters were accused of having their hands in the till, and in which the phrase "we prosecuted" was used.

    Vennells said she understood this to mean that the Post Office had brought the case to external prosecutors.

  • Vennells claims she was unaware Post Office could prosecute subpostmasters

    Paula Vennells said she was unaware the Post Office brought its own prosecutions until 2012, despite her attending a meeting in 2007 in which it was discussed that the Post Office was investigating its own employees.

    She agreed with the assessment by counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC that she had "no understanding of the board’s responsibility for the oversight of criminal investigations process, and nor did in fact, you appreciate you say even that it brought its own prosecution assessment."

    Beer asked: “So between 2007 and 2012, you did not know that there was a department called POID, the Post Office Investigation Division, that it employed up to 100 people and that their job was to bring up criminal investigations around the country into your staff?”

    Ms Vennells replied: “I did not understand the extent of what it was until 2012, and I’m very sorry for that.”

    Asked why senior staff did not know this, she said: “It’s completely unacceptable that that was the case and that people, including myself, didn’t know.

    “My only explanation for that is that it had been going on for so long, that it was an accepted reality, it was the status quo that I joined and accepted, I shouldn’t have done.”

    Laughter broke out in the room as Vennells was asked about a 100-strong team investigating postmasters.

    “When you spoke to John Scott about this, did you say John, I’ve been in the organisation for five or six years, I didn’t know you had a team of 100 people that were investigating up and down the country sub-postmasters and sending them to prison. How come I didn’t know?” Beer asked, to laughter.

  • Vennells finds it hard to say whether she knew subpostmasters were suffering

    Paula Vennells found it hard to say whether she knew subpostmasters were suffering at the time. (Post office inquiry)
    Paula Vennells found it hard to say whether she knew subpostmasters were suffering at the time. (Post office inquiry)

    Paula Vennells has said there was no “motivation” to put the needs of the Post Office over the suffering of subpostmasters during the Horizon scandal.

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Were you preoccupied with the need to protect the Post Office’s reputation and brand?”

    Vennells said: “Yes, but not to the extent of putting that over and above the suffering of the subpostmasters.”

    Beer replied: “Did you know they were suffering?”

    Vennells said: “That’s a difficult question to answer because the answer is yes and no, I understood clearly if people are being prosecuted, that was a very difficult thing and the reason that we put in place the review of Second Sight and the mediation scheme was to look into that. I wasn’t personally aware at the time because I wasn’t involved in the prosecutions.”

    Questioned on whether she put the needs of the business over the suffering of subpostmasters, Vennells said there “will be many examples of where that is clearly the case”.

    She said: “In terms of a personal approach I don’t ever recall that being a motivation. I can see with hindsight that there will be many examples of where that is clearly the case because the Post Office got this very wrong.”

  • Vennells shown email in which she called Alan Bates 'unhelpful'

    Accusations of blame by Alan Bates after Martin Griffiths’s death were “unhelpful”, Paula Vennells said.

    An email from Bates criticising the Post Office after Griffiths’s death was shown, to which Vennells said the campaigner was “rightly very, very angry about this”, but his language about her colleagues “was extreme”.

    Jason Beer KC asked: “You say in your statement that ‘this was a time of great distress for Mr Griffiths’s family, and I felt the accusations of blame were unhelpful’… is that right that you felt that Mr Bates’s accusations of blame were unhelpful?”

    Vennells responded: “I think at this stage some of those accusations of blame were unhelpful, yes, because the Post Office needed to respond to this properly and at that stage, I had no understanding as to what had gone on.”

  • Vennells claims witness statement written 'with integrity'

    Paula Vennells said she wrote her witness statement with “integrity, truth and honesty” after being grilled over whether she could only remember things that were “exculpatory” of her.

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked: “Would this be right, you have no problem remembering things that put responsibility or attribute blame to others?

    “Why is it that you can remember things that are exculpatory of you that tend to diminish your blameworthiness?”

    Vennells replied: “No I don’t believe that’s the way I approached my statement at all.

    “I approached it with the intention of integrity, truth and honesty.”

  • Vennells asked if Post Office had a culture of forgetting the bad

    Paula Vennells was asked if there was a culture in the Post Office "that people only looked to the good and forgot the bad".

    "No, I can't comment on other people," she said. "My aproach to this is I hope with integrity. In the post office itself I don't recollect that and you've already mentioned that there was a positive cuylture in the organisation of lessons learnt

    "I don't think I've said that," Jason Beer KC responded.

  • Vennells apologises for saying subpostmasters had been 'tempted to put their hands in the till'

    Paula Vennells apologised for her comment that subpostmasters had been “tempted to put their hands in the till” and said it was an “assumption” she made.

    The Horizon IT inquiry heard Vennells made the claim, among others, to a group of parliamentarians in June 2012.

    She also told them the Post Office had never lost a case and that whenever the Horizon system had been investigated it was not found to have been at fault, the probe heard.

    Of her comment that subpostmasters were being led into temptation, she said: “That’s a more difficult one to talk about. The first thing I would say on that is to apologise because I’m very aware that that was not the case and it was an assumption I made.”

    She explained the assumption was based on “examples of cases” and what she had been told.

    Of her comment that the Post Office had never lost a case, Vennells told the inquiry she drew that information from what she was told in a board meeting in January 2012, adding: “It was an understanding in the organisation that this was the case.”

    “That the Post Office had a 100% hit rate?” Jason Beer KC asked.

    “I don’t think it was mentioned that way but yes in terms of the way that it’s described here and clearly that was completely inaccurate in many different ways,” Venells replied.

  • Vennells cries as she is asked about subpostmasters who died by suicide

    Paula Vennells wept as she discussed subpostmasters who had died by suicide. (Post office inquiry)
    Paula Vennells wept as she discussed subpostmasters who had died by suicide. (Post office inquiry)

    Paula Vennells wept as she discussed postmasters who died by suicide.

    "Try and compose yourself if you can and then continue your evidence please," she was told by counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer.

    Vennells was asked about an email she sent after the hospitalisation of Martin Griffiths, who died in hospital a week after he was admitted.

    Vennells had written that there were "usually several contributory factors", but told the inquiry that she started every email about Griffiths with enquiries about his family.

    "I think I was trying to find out whether there was anything else behind it. I had a personal experience of a previous Post Office colleague who took their own life," she said before breaking down into tears.

    "And I phoned the family and I spoke to the father who explained to me that there were other issues involved and I imagine that I was probably... In this particular case I had spoken to the subpostmasters' father who had said to me that there were other contributory factors in his son's death and they were very grateful that I had made the call."

  • Vennells accused of making 'PR apology'

    A former subpostmaster has accused Paula Vennells of making a “PR apology”.

    Mark Kelly, 45, who was a subpostmaster in Swansea from 2003 to 2006, said: “The apology I think was quite well-rehearsed, the speech of the apology and also the response to the questions.

    “The reason why I think the apology was more like a PR apology was because all these years she could have made an apology like that.

    “Why did she have to wait until today to do that?”

    Jess Kaur, 52, an ex-postmistress in Walsall who was wrongly accused in 2009 of stealing £11,000, said: “I was just thinking to myself when she started crying that we were crying like that at the time.

    “It was nice to see her tears, but at the same time she’s got a lot to answer for. She just needs to tell the truth.”

  • Inquiry breaks amid leaking roof

    The inquiry has paused for a break, after it became evident that the roof was leaking.

    "Very slowly, i'm being attacked by drips," said the chair of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry, Sir Wyn William.

    Counsel for the inquiry Jason Beer KC said:" I don't think that's tolerable, a form of Chinese water torture... let's take the break now."

  • Vennells weeps as she says the Post Office knew some cases had found in favour of subpostmasters

    Paula Vennells broke down in tears as she was asked why she told parliamentarians that every prosecution of subpostmasters had found in favour of the Post Office.

    "It was completely incorrect," she said.

    Jason Beer KC asked her whether she knew that was incorrect because a number of cases has seen Post Office subpostmaters acquitted in their cases that referenced Horizon.

    "I didn't know that information... I know now."

    Beer asked why she told parliamentarians that every prosecution involving the Horizon system had found in favour of the Post Office.

    "I fully accept now that the Post Office..." she said before beginning to weep. "That the Post Office knew that... I completely accept it personally I didn't know that and I am incredible sorry that that happened to those people and to so many others."

  • Vennells said she was told multiple times there was no evidence to suggest miscarriages of justice

    Paula Vennells was asked about the claim by her former colleague Alisdair Cameron that Vennells did not believe that there were any miscarriages of justice because she "could not get there emotioanally".

    "I was told multiple times... that there had been no evidence found," she said.

    Vennells insisted that she did not believe there had been any miscarriages of justice throughout her time as CEO of the Post Office.

    She said: “I had been told on multiple occasions… that there had been no evidence found. The inquiry heard from [former PO director] Patrick Bourke where Fujitsu records were checked to see if there was a scar and everything was golden.”

    When pressed to say whether she did not believe there had been any miscarriage of justice during her tenure, Vennells told the inquiry: “I think that’s right.”

    Group chief financial officer Alisdair Cameron previously told the inquiry that Vennells did not believe there had been any miscarriages of justice because she “could not get there emotionally”.

    Responding to his comments, Vennells added: “You can’t be a chief executive and rely solely on your emotions, no.”

    However, Vennells admitted that she did believe things had gone wrong while she was in charge, telling the inquiry that “there there were problems with Horizon all the way through my tenure.”

  • Watch: Vennells asked if she was 'unluckiest CEO in the UK'

    Watch the moment Paula Vennells was asked whether she was the unluckiest CEO in the UK.

  • Vennells asked if she still thinks system – and not people – to blame for Post Office scandal

    Paula Vennells was shown a statement in which she said people were "wrongly prosecuted as a result of the Horizon system".

    Inquiry counsel Jason Beer KC asked her: "Do you continue to think that the issue was with the computer system – the Horizon system – as opposed to the conduct, competence and ethics of those in the Post Office?"

    She replied: "No not at all... what I meant to say... is what a result of all of the matters relating to Horizon and all of the issues that the inquiry was looking at."

    He continued: "This suggests you think the issue is with the system and not the people."

    "That was not what i intended to convey at all," Vennells replied.

  • ‘For god’s sake, speak truth’: ex-subpostmasters call for honesty from Vennells

    Former subpostmasters called for honesty from Paula Vennells as the ex-Post Office boss gave oral evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry, imploring her: “For god’s sake, speak truth.”

    Read the full story from PA.

  • Vennells asked if she was adopting a 'wait and see' approach to evidence

    Jason Beer KC asked Paula Vennells if she was adopting a 'wait and see' approach to evidence. (Post Office inquiry)
    Jason Beer KC asked Paula Vennells if she was adopting a 'wait and see' approach to evidence. (Post Office inquiry)

    Paula Vennells was asked why she did not give a statement as to what she could have done differently with hindsight "given you provided a 775 page witness statement that you took seven months to provide".

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked Vennells if she was adopting a "wait and see" approach to her evidence to see what she had to admit.

    "I was absolutely not a wait and see," she said.

    "Yes I could have put more into it... and I'm sorry if that isn't, wasn't helpful.

    "I read so many documents and worked a long time to try and prepare this and disclosures are coming out all the time. I would be very happy to tell the inquiry now - I have a list of things in my head."

  • 'I think you knew,' colleague told Vennells

    The former CEO of Royal Mail sent Paula Vennells a text message accusing her of 'knowing' about the Horizon IT scandal.

    Moya Greene sent Vennells a series of text messages about the Post Office inquiry, one of which read: "I think you knew."

    Vennels responded: "No Moya, this isn't the case."

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked Vennells if she believed Greene had been accusing her of knowing about bugs in the Horizon system, to which Vennells responded that she thought Greene was asking her whether she thought there was a cover up.

    A conversation between Paula Vennells and Moya Greene. (Post Office inquiry)
    A conversation between Paula Vennells and Moya Greene. (Post Office inquiry)
  • Vennells apologises to Alan Bates

    Former sub postmaster Alan Bates, a victim of the Post Office scandal, speaks to the press as he leaves the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry in London.
    Paula Vennells apologised specifically to former sub postmaster Alan Bates, a victim of the Post Office scandal. (PA)

    Paula Vennells has apologised specifically to former subpostmaster and campaigner Alan Bates while giving evidence at the Horizon IT inquiry.

    Addressing attendees at Aldwych House, she said she would like to repeat an apology she made to Bates, and a number of other individuals, in one of her witness statements.

    In the statement, Vennells said: “I also offer my apologies to Alan Bates, Ian Henderson, Ron Warmington, Lord Arbuthnot and all those who worked with them to secure justice for the subpostmasters.”

  • Vennells says she has 'no sense' there was a Post Office conspiracy

    Paula Vennells gives evidence to the Post Office inquiry. (youtube)
    Paula Vennells gives evidence to the Post Office inquiry. (youtube)

    Paula Vennells was asked whether she thought there was a conspiracy at the Post Office to hide information from her.

    "Was there a conspiracy at the Post Office that lasted nearly 12 years... to deny you information and deny you documents?" asked counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC.

    Vennells replied: "No I don't believe that was the case.

    "You've covered a range of different issues... um I have been disappointed particularly more recently listening to evidence at the inquiry where I think I have learned that people knew more than perhaps either they remembered at the time or I knew of at the time.

    "I have no sense that there was any conspiracy at all."

  • Vennells says she was 'too trusting'

    Paula Vennells has said she was “too trusting” as she was asked if she was the “unluckiest CEO in the United Kingdom”.

    Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC said: “Do you think you are the unluckiest CEO in the United Kingdom?”

    Vennells replied: “As the inquiry has heard, there was information I wasn’t given and others didn’t receive as well.

    “One of my reflections of all of this – I was too trusting.

    “I did probe and I did ask questions and I’m disappointed where information wasn’t shared and it has been a very important time for me… to plug some of those gaps.”

    Vennells appeared to blame her lawyers for not being advised about bugs in the Horizon system until after she left the Post Office.

    She told the inquiry that she trusted former Post Office general counsel Chris Aujard, internal lawyer Rod Williams and lawyers Linklaters to advise and discuss with her a report produced by Deloitte in 2014 about false criminal convictions.

    She said: “There was a report produced by Linklaters, which came to the board, which was discussed and in the preparation for that I worked with a small group of colleagues… and chased down a list of questions from the board but… I had no involvement in the final formulation of the instructions.”

  • Vennells apologises for subpostmasters' suffering

    Kicking off three days of evidence at the Post Office inquiry, former chief executive Paula Vennells has said “how sorry I am for all that subpostmasters and their families… have suffered”.

  • Vennells' evidence begins - with a warning

    Paula Vennells, former Chief Executive Officer of the Post Office, arrives at Aldwych House, where the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry continues, in London, Britain, May 22, 2024. Reuters/Maja Smiejkowska
    Paula Vennells, former CEO of the Post Office, arrives at Aldwych House, where the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry continues. (Reuters)

    At the beginning of her evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry, former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells was given a self-incrimination warning.

    The warning made it clear to Vennells she could decline to answer a question and the chairman Sir Wyn Williams said her objection would be ruled upon thereafter.

    In response to the warning, Vennells said: “Thank you Sir Wyn… I plan to answer all questions.”

  • What happened with Paula Vennells' CBE?

    Paula Vennells was made a CBE in the 2019 New Year Honours List “for services to the Post Office and to charity.

    However, there was an outcry over Vennells having the honour following the release of the ITV drama Alan Bates vs The Post Office, and she voluntarily handed back her CBE after a petition attracted more than 1.2 million signatures.

  • Has anyone been held criminally responsible?

    The Metropolitan Police has previously said they are looking at “potential fraud offences arising out of these prosecutions”.

    This includes “monies recovered from subpostmasters as a result of prosecutions or civil actions”.

    Two Fujitsu experts, who were witnesses in the trials, are being investigated for perjury and perverting the course of justice – but nobody has been arrested since the inquiry was launched in January 2020.

  • Week ahead is of 'monumental significance'

    Dr Neil Hudgell, executive chairman of Hudgell Solicitors, giving evidence to the Business and Trade Committee at the Houses of Parliament, London, on what more can be done to deliver compensation for victims of what has been labelled one of the worst miscarriages of justice in British history. Picture date: Tuesday January 16, 2024. (Photo by House of Commons/PA Images via Getty Images)
    Dr Neil Hudgell, executive chairman of Hudgell Solicitors. (Getty)

    A solicitor whose firm represents dozens of subpostmasters has described Pauls Vennells' evidence this week as "monumental".

    Neil Hudgell said: “Our clients have waited a very long time to hear Ms Vennells’ evidence, and it goes without saying that the week ahead is of monumental significance.

    “It is not for me to speculate on what evidence Ms Vennells may give to the Inquiry, but as the operational head of the organisation it is for her to take ownership and accountability for what went on during her term of office.

    “Victims of this scandal are re-traumatised every time they hear denial, untruth or subterfuge and can’t begin to move on without answers, accountability and genuinely expressed regret and sorrow.

    “We sincerely hope that Ms Vennells will deliver on her promise to bring much needed clarity and understanding to these proceedings.”

  • Post Office hero rejects 'derisory' offer

    Former sub postmaster Alan Bates, a victim of the Post Office scandal, speaks to the press as he leaves the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry in London.
    Former sub postmaster Alan Bates. (PA)

    One of the heroes of the Post Office scandal, former subpostmaster Alan Bates, recently rejected a second offer of compensation over the Horizon IT scandal, it was reported last week.

    The latest offer was a third of what he had requested, according to the BBC, with Bates telling the broadcaster it was “frustrating”.

    Hundreds of subpostmasters are still awaiting full compensation after they were prosecuted by the Post Office and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015.

    Bates, whose two-decade fight for justice inspired the ITV series Mr Bates vs The Post Office, turned down a “derisory” offer from the Government earlier this year.

    Of the latest offer, Bates told the BBC: “It’s frustrating for myself, frustrating for everyone. People have lost 20 years of their lives and they’re still hanging on, we’ve also lost 70 odd people along the way.

    “These delays are causing all sorts of problems for the families involved.”

  • Vennells mobbed by press as she arrives at inquiry

    Paula Vennells has arrived at the inquiry.

    The disgraced ex-chief executive did not answer any questions as she entered Aldwych House in London on Wednesday.

    Officers had previously asked media to ensure there was a clear path for Ms Vennells to enter the building as she arrived around two hours before proceedings were due to commence.

    She was surrounded by press as she exited a car a short distance from the venue and was eventually escorted by police.

    Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells arrives to give evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry at Aldwych House, central London. Picture date: Wednesday May 22, 2024.
    Vennells was mobbed by the press as she arrived. (PA)
    May 22, 2024, London, England, United Kingdom: PAULA VENNELLS, former Group Chief Executive Officer of Post Office Ltd, arrives at Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry Public Hearing ahead of giving evidence. (Credit Image: © Tayfun Salci/ZUMA Press Wire) EDITORIAL USAGE ONLY! Not for Commercial USAGE!
    Vennells is due to start giving evidence at 10am. (Zuma)
  • Vennells should ‘come clean now'

    Former sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton arrive at the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry, in central London, on April 17, 2024. More than 700 people running small local post offices received criminal convictions between 1999 and 2005 after faulty accounting software made it appear that money had gone missing from their branches. The scandal has been described at an ongoing public inquiry as
    Former sub-postmistress Jo Hamilton arriving at the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry in April this year. (Getty)

    A wrongly accused former sub-postmistress has called on Paula Vennells, the ex-Post Office chief executive, to “come clean now” after accusing her of “perverting the course of justice” over the Horizon scandal.

    Jo Hamilton was falsely accused of stealing £36,000 from the Post Office branch she ran in South Warnborough, Hants. Her case was featured in the ITV drama Mr Bates Vs The Post Office. She pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of false accounting to avoid going to jail and was prosecuted in 2006.

    Ahead of Ms Vennells’ evidence to the inquiry on Wednesday, Ms Hamilton said if she were in the former Post Office boss’s position, she would “just put my hands up” and say: “I’m really sorry and this is what happened.”

    Read the full report on the Telegraph here

  • Vennells ‘aware of disturbing cases a year before company halted prosecutions’

    File photo dated 22/06/23 of Nadhim Zahawi, who has been appointed chair of online retailer Very Group, which owns Very and Littlewoods. The Conservative MP will replace interim chair Aidan Barclay at the company, which is part of the Barclay family's business empire. Issue date: Monday May 13, 2024.
    Nadhim Zahawi has said he "hopes Ms Vennells will finally admit the truth". (PA)

    Ahead of Paula Vennells' appearance today, ITV News has reported that she described potential wrongful convictions of subpostmasters as “very disturbing” more than a year before the company halted prosecutions,.

    ITV News claimed that an email from October 2013, which surfaced yesterday, as well as a recording of a phone conversation involving Vennells confirmed she was sent case files of eight subpostmasters.

    In her exchange with Ron Warmington, a forensic accountant with firm Second Sight who were drafted in to review independently the Horizon system, Vennells said: “I have just read through the attachments. Apart from finding them very disturbing (I defy anyone not to), I am now even better informed.

    “The form you have devised is very helpful as it removes some of the emotion and highlights very clearly areas we need to address as well as investigate for the mediation process, which I hope will bring closure for some of these people."

    ITV News said former member of the business and trade select committee, Nadhim Zahawi, believed the email will “be seen as the smoking gun that is the cover-up that has taken place at the Post Office”.

    The Conservative MP told the broadcaster: “I hope that Ms Vennells will finally admit the truth so that the public can get to the bottom of this and those who have suffered get the justice they need.”

    Read the full story from the PA news agency here

  • What is the Horizon scandal? A brief guide

    A general view of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry hearing room at Aldwych House in central London. Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells is due to begin giving her evidence to the Inquiry on Wednesday morning. Picture date: Tuesday May 21, 2024.
    The scandal has been described as one of the worst in living memory. (PA)

    Here's a potted guide to the Horizon IT system accounting software, which was owned by Japanese company Fujitsu. It saw accounts automated after subpostmasters entered their sales figures via a touchscreen.

    What problems were being caused by Horizon?

    Subpostmasters started experiencing unexplained shortfalls in their accounts and were liable for losses under their contract with the Post Office.

    What did the Post Office do when subpostmasters suffered shortfalls?

    The Post Office ordered subpostmasters to pay back the money that was lost and they were told they could face prosecution if they did not comply.

    What happened to subpostmasters who experienced shortfalls but could not pay the money back?

    More than 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted by the Post Office for allegations such as theft and false accounting – with many sent to prison or bankrupted.

    When were the shortfalls attributed to the faulty computer software?

    In December 2019, a High Court judge ruled that Horizon contained a number of “bugs, errors and defects” and there was a “material risk” that shortfalls in Post Office branch accounts were caused by the system.

  • Five key accusations levelled at Vennells

    Numerous accusations have been levelled at Paula Vennells since the scandal came to light, with much of the focus on how the Post Office handled the scandal during her leadership from 2012 to 2019.

    Yahoo News runs through some of the key claims levelled at the former CEO, including:

    • She advocated for the continuation of prosecutions of subpostmasters after it was suggested at a meeting in 2013 that they should cease

    • She made several different claims to ministers during her tenure running the Post Office

    • She had been unwavering in her conviction that there were no miscarriages of justice

    • She was told on several occasions by the chairman of the Post Office's mediation scheme that the Post Office's case did not make sense

    Read the full breakdown here