‘No room for the Indians?’: Tory donor Frank Hester suggested staff climb on train roof

The Conservative party’s biggest donor asked if there was “no room for the Indians” and suggested staff climb on a train roof during a crowded meeting, before saying he made “a lot of jokes about racism”.

Frank Hester, who has donated £10m to the Tories in the past year, also said he wanted to find jokes about Malaysian people during a trip to the country, the Guardian can reveal.

Hester runs a major healthcare technology firm, the Phoenix Partnership (TPP), which is contracted to work for the NHS and Department of Health and Social Care. As revealed by the Guardian on Monday, he called a meeting of his “foreign” workers to address allegations of racism made by former employees in 2019.

Addressing a number of staff members on a crowded balcony for the meeting at the TPP headquarters, overlooking the railway line in Horsforth, Leeds, Hester asked if there was “no room for the Indians, then?” He then said: “Climb on the roof, like on the roof of the train there maybe?”

Hester also spoke of a forthcoming work trip, saying: “I’m looking forward to going to Malaysia, so that I can make new jokes – I don’t know any jokes about Malaysian people but I’m sure we’ll find them. I’m sure we’ll find them. There have got to be some, haven’t there?”

Related: Frank Hester: computer programmer who made fortune from public sector contracts

He added: “I do think that in a loving company, we should be able to make jokes about each other in a loving way, and tease each other, and enjoy each other’s company. And I think we all know the difference between a racial slur and perhaps ‘Asian corner’, which is still going on here today.”

Hester’s comments on “Asian corner”, made during the same 2019 meeting, emerged on Monday as part of a months-long Guardian investigation. The report also revealed that Hester said looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” – though he said he did not hate all black women – and said the MP “should be shot” in a separate 2019 meeting.

The revelations about the remarks relating to Abbott have prompted a furious debate, with politicians and leading figures from across the political spectrum describing them as racist.

A statement from TPP said Hester “accepts that he was rude about Diane Abbott in a private meeting several years ago but his criticism had nothing to do with her gender nor colour of skin”. The statement said Hester had tried to apologise directly for the “hurt he has caused” and that he was “deeply sorry for his remarks”. The statement also said he abhorred racism.

A spokesperson for Rishi Sunak initially said Hester’s remarks about Abbott were “clearly unacceptable” but refused to say whether the prime minister considered them to be racist. Late on Tuesday afternoon the spokesperson issued a new statement saying: “The comments allegedly made by Frank Hester were racist and wrong. He has now rightly apologised for the offence caused and where remorse is shown it should be accepted.”

At the 2019 meeting for “foreign” workers, Hester gave his own definition of racism, saying: “For me, racism is just a hatred and a fear of the other. For me, it is just exactly the same as homophobia – it’s not limited to the colour of your skin, it is not limited to religion, it can just be the country next door, it can just be the county next door. It can be northerners and southerners, which we have here.”

In the same meeting, Hester said: “I make a lot of jokes about racism, about our different creeds and cultures. But I just want to assure you that it is just the most abhorrent thing.”

Carter-Ruck, representing Hester and TPP, has previously said Hester’s comments were distorted and taken out of context, and were not a true or accurate characterisation of the company or Hester.

Lord Marland, a businessman and Tory donor who says he knows Hester, told LBC that Hester was “an international businessman, he travels widely overseas – he does a lot of a business in Jamaica, he does business in Malaysia, in Bangladesh, in places like that – so he’s not a racist. He made some unfortunate remarks which do sound racist, and quite rightly, he’s apologised for them.”

Hester did not respond to a request to comment.