Bruce Lehrmann told police he ‘wouldn’t dream’ of entering minister’s office where he allegedly raped Brittany Higgins, court told

Bruce Lehrmann told police he thought he was being a “gentleman” by sharing an Uber back to Parliament House with the colleague he is accused of raping, Brittany Higgins, and said he “wouldn’t dream” of going into the office of then minister Linda Reynolds, where the assault is alleged to have occurred.

The ACT supreme court heard from Lehrmann for the first time on Tuesday, via a recording of his interview with police, played as part of the prosecution case. The interview was conducted in April 2021 after Higgins went public with her allegations that Lehrmann raped her on a couch next to the desk of then-defence industry minister Linda Reynolds.

Lehrmann has pleaded not guilty to sexual intercourse without consent. This week’s evidence was temporarily suppressed until Higgins, who was unavailable for several days, concluded her cross-examination on Friday.

In his police interview, Lehrmann variously said he had not raped Higgins, that the pair had no sexual contact, and that neither was heavily intoxicated when they went back to Reynolds’ suite of offices after a night of drinking in Canberra on 22 and 23 March 2019.

He also said he thought it was strange for Higgins to go into Reynolds’ office itself.

“I wouldn’t dream of going into the minister’s office at all,” he said.

Lehrmann said in the interview the general culture at Parliament House was “horrendous” and “mentally scarring”.

He became emotional as he spoke to police about the public revelation of rape allegations against him, and said he had contemplated suicide.

“I was ready to go,” he told two officers in the Australian federal police’s Sydney headquarters.

“That week, I wound up everything. My single mum was going to be OK, she was going to get my super. [It was] just journos and shit in the media, just some of the articles, taking apart years of me advising. I didn’t get relentless phone calls from journalists, but it was hurtful when I did get them, and to my sister and family in the United States.”

He said he was at his “wits’ end” when he learned that Channel Nine had video footage showing him accessing mental health support.

“I’ve got support, now, but it was a very tough fortnight I suppose.”

Asked about the events of 22 and 23 March, he said both he and Higgins needed to go in to Parliament House after 1am – Lehrmann to pick up his keys and attend to some work, and Higgins to do her own, unspecified work – and that he had offered to share an Uber with her.

“I thought I was being a gentleman,” he said.

Lehrmann denied they had gone back to the offices to continue drinking, but in a statement to police, his then chief of staff, Fiona Brown, had said Lehrmann told her the early-morning visit was to drink whisky.

Asked about the inconsistency, Lehrmann told police: “There was no alcohol, I didn’t have any alcohol.”

Lehrmann told police he last saw Higgins when they entered the ministerial suite and went to their respective desks.

He left parliament alone when he finished his work, without saying goodbye to Higgins, he told police.

In the police interview Lehrmann estimated from the timing of the two Ubers he ordered – one to parliament with Higgins and the other home by himself – that he was at parliament for about 45 minutes. In that time, he said, he picked up his keys and sorted Question Time briefs for his minister, something he said had been prompted by a discussion earlier in the evening with defence officials at Canberra bar The Dock.

“I did what I had to do, got what I needed, then worked on the question time folders, very quickly,” he said.

He said he did not know what work Higgins was doing in Reynolds’ office at about 2am.

“It shocked me at the time, the timing to do it … but that’s her business, I’m not a media adviser, sometimes the minister would have asked her for something, that’s often the case. I don’t know.”

Lehrmann was also asked by the police about the second bar they went to that night, 88mph, with two colleagues.

The accused told police he and Higgins had been close at 88mph, but could not remember if there had been anything more intimate.

“Yeah it’s possible, but would I have acted beyond anything that was a bit flirtatious?” he said. “Absolutely not, because I was in a relationship.”

He said he did not see anything to make him think Higgins was heavily intoxicated at 88mph. One of the colleagues who was with Higgins and Lehrmann at the bar has given evidence that Higgins had fallen over because she was very drunk, and that Lehrmann had helped pick her up.

At one point during the interview, Lehrmann was asked whether the culture at parliament was “ruthless”.

“The culture was horrendous,” he replied.

Lehrmann said the way ministers treated their staff behind the scenes was “mentally scarring” and was one of the reasons he was attempting to leave parliament in 2019.

The court heard it was common for staffers to go back to their offices to continue drinking after a dinner or post-work drinks. That would often involve the ministers themselves, Lehrmann said in the police interview.

“There were times when I had been back with my minister, for example, and the whole office, and had drinks in the office,” he said. “That happened all the time.”

Lehrmann said he had heard stories of staffers being turned away by security because they were so drunk.

“It was quite often the case that if a member of your party was too intoxicated … we did have times when they would send them away,” he said.

He said it was common for ministers’ offices to have alcohol including beers and spirits.

“I would be surprised if a minister’s office didn’t have alcohol,” he told police.

Lehrmann was questioned by police about the circumstances in which he lost his job. The accused said he was called into a meeting and disciplined for the security breach caused by his late-night visit to parliament, something he said was strange, given it was “common practice” for staffers, and even ministers, to go to parliament after drinking.

Despite that, he said, he “copped” his punishment “on the chin”, packed up his belongings and left.

He said he found it strange that he was later allowed back into parliament while working in the private sector.

“The shocking part of all of this is that I’ve proceeded with my life, attended events back at parliament, met with staff at the [prime minister’s office] and other ministers’ offices, and through my network, I’ve heard nothing [about my termination],” he said in the interview.

The court heard that Lehrmann’s then girlfriend called him a number of times about 2.17am, while Lehrmann and Higgins were in parliament. Lehrmann didn’t pick up.

He told police his phone was on silent and he must have been looking through Question Time briefs, with his back to the phone.

The trial continues before ACT chief justice, Lucy McCallum.

• In Australia, the crisis support service Lifeline is 13 11 14. In the UK and Ireland, Samaritans can be contacted on freephone 116 123, or email jo@samaritans.org or jo@samaritans.ie. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is at 800-273-8255 or chat for support. You can also text HOME to 741741 to connect with a crisis text line counselor. Other international helplines can be found at befrienders.org