Covid inquiry: Matt Hancock 'wanted to decide who should live and die' if hospitals grew full, says ex-NHS chief

Matt Hancock wanted to be the one to decide "who should live and who should die" if hospitals became overwhelmed by coronavirus patients, former NHS boss Sir Simon Stevens has told the Covid Inquiry.

Sir Simon’s witness statement said: “The secretary of state for health and social care took the position that in this situation he – rather than, say, the medical profession or the public – should ultimately decide who should live and who should die.

“Fortunately this horrible dilemma never crystallised.”

Thursday is seeing evidence from key figures outside government, including former NHS chief executive Sir Simon, along with Professor Yvonne Doyle, former medical director at Public Health England.

Sir Christopher Wormald, permanent secretary at the Department of Health and Social Care, is also giving evidence today.

In recent days, the inquiry has heard explosive testimony from some of the key figures in Downing Street during the early stages of the pandemic.

Figures including Helen MacNamara, Dominic Cummings have criticised then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson and then-Health Secretary Matt Hancock's handling of the situation from the inside.

Ex-NHS chief to give evidence today

08:34 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Good morning, and welcome to the Standard's live blog.

We'll be bringing you all the latest updates today, which is set to see former NHS chief executive Sir Simon Stevens and former Public Health England medical director Professor Yvonne Doyle give evidence before the Covid Inquiry.

Key revelations of the inquiry so far

08:49 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Some of Downing Street's key figures during the early stages of the pandemic have appeared before the Covid Inquiry this week, during the second round of public hearings.

The key allegations have painted a picture of alleged governmental dysfunction, as Downing Street scrambled to respond to the Covid-19 pandemic.

The inquiry has heard multiple references to then-PM Boris Johnson as “the trolley” who tended to “wild oscillations”, while former No 10’s communications director Lee Cain described his former boss’s erratic decision-making as “rather exhausting”.

Helen MacNamara, who was deputy cabinet secretary during the pandemic, also eviscerated then-health secretary Matt Hancock's assurances to No10 that he had an early grip on the pandemic. The lack of detail in an action plan presented by Mr Hancock at the start of March 2020 was "shocking", she told the inquiry.

It was not just the Prime Minister who came in for criticism, but the Cabinet Office and wider system.

Dominic Cummings, former chief adviser to Mr Johnson, made clear his views about the how the “dysfunctional system” during a “meltdown of the British state” failed to deal with the crisis.

WhatsApp messages also revealed Mr Cummings pushed Mr Johnson to reshuffle then-health secretary Mr Hancock. In one exchange, Mr Cummings claimed Mr Hancock had “lied his way through this and killed people and dozens and dozens of people have seen it”.

Read more here

MP whose mother died in Covid says inquiry is 'deeply painful'

09:08 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

John Nicholson, MP for Ochil & South Perthshire in Scotland, whose mother died during the pandemic, said he is finding the inquiry "deeply painful".

Pride hampered UK's Covid response, hearing told

09:15 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

“Hubris” and “overconfidence” that the UK would not be hit as hard by the pandemic hampered its learning from other countries, the head of the government’s so-called nudge unit said yesterday.

President of the Behavioural Insights Team, Professor David Halpern, told the UK Covid-19 Inquiry that pride in UK science led to a delay in considering approaches by other nations affected at the start of the crisis.

In a letter to senior officials in July 2020 criticising the initial response, he wrote: “Ironically, the pride in our science and our capabilities slowed our ability to learn lessons from other countries under cover of variations of ‘it is very different there’, there was an arrogance that we knew better and would do better.”

The psychologist told the inquiry yesterday that overconfidence “characterised a lot of what was happening from early on to those very early comparisons to other countries – Japan, Germany – and it made us slower to look really carefully at what they did and learn the lessons from them."

Sexism also damaged response to pandemic, MacNamara told inquiry

09:32 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Helen MacNamara, who was one of the country’s highest ranking female officials, told the inquiry yesterday that sexism in No 10 also damaged the response to the pandemic.

The public hearing was shown messages on Tuesday by Mr Cummings to the then-prime minister describing then-deputy cabinet secretary Ms MacNamara as a “c***” who “must be out of our hair”.

Giving evidence on Wednesday, Ms MacNamara said the messages were “horrible to read”, but that in many ways she was not surprised by them considering the “toxic culture” that reigned.

“The way in which it was considered appropriate to describe what should happen to me, yes, as a woman, but, yes, as a civil servant, it is disappointing to me that the prime minister didn’t pick him up on some of that violent and misogynistic language,” she said.

Inquiry counsel Andrew O’Connor KC said Mr Johnson was a participant in not just that WhatsApp group but “plenty of others where this sort of language, this sort of abuse, was used”.

Asked about Mr Johnson’s failure to stop the language, Ms MacNamara said: “It is just miles away from what is right or proper or decent, or what the country deserves.”

Mr Cummings, giving a running commentary online during her evidence, said his comments were “bad” but argued it is “mental” to focus on it over the actions of the Cabinet Office.

What is the UK Covid-19 Inquiry?

09:43 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

The independent public inquiry is examining the UK’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, with the intention of improving preparedness for any future pandemic.

It is chaired by Heather Hallett, a member of the House of Lords and a former Court of Appeal judge.The inquiry is split into modules, which explore how prepared the UK was for the pandemic, how decisions were made during the pandemic and the impact that it had on the healthcare system and the people that work in it and use it.

The first module of the Covid Inquiry, which examined the UK’s preparedness for the pandemic, opened on July 21 last year.The second module, examining core decision-making and political governance, opened on August 31 last year and is split into parts. The current public hearings form part of this module.

CCummings’ comments risk putting women off politics, warns Cabinet minister

09:54 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

The “misogyny” on display in Dominic Cummings’ WhatsApp messages risks putting women off entering politics, a Cabinet minister has warned.

Michelle Donelan said she is “deeply concerned” and does not “condone misogyny” and that kind of behaviour “in any workplace”, let alone No 10.

Mr Cummings, former chief adviser to Boris Johnson, apologised to the UK Covid-19 Inquiry for his language, including a WhatsApp message describing senior official Helen MacNamara as a “c***”.

Science Secretary Ms Donelan, who was an education minister at the height of the pandemic, said she has not personally experienced misogynistic behaviour.

But she told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “I think I am concerned about some of the revelations and the comments that are coming out here, because my biggest concern is that other women will be watching and hearing that rhetoric and deciding that maybe politics isn’t for them.”

“What we want to make sure is that the next generation of politicians that come forward equally represent different parts of society and we’re not putting people off from politics, because that would be to the detriment of democracy."

The hearing resumes

10:04 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

It's just after 10am and today's proceedings are beginning. First up, we will hear evidence from former NHS Chief Executive, Sir Simon Stevens.

He is just being sworn in.

Who is Sir Simon Stevens?

10:09 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Sir Simon Stevens was Chief Executive of NHS England for more than seven years, from April 2014 to July 2021.

The final year-and-a-half of his tenure coincided with the Covid-19 pandemic.

He acted as the operational head of the NHS. Describing the work of NHS England during the pandemic, Sir Simon told the inquiry: "Our job was to lead the NHS response."

Sir Simon was made a life peer on stepping down as CEO in 2021.

COBRA meetings large and not 'optimally effective', says former NHS CEO

10:18 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Sir Simon says the main responsibility of NHS England during the pandemic was "to do everything we could to make sure the NHS was able to look after severely ill covid patients and also all the non-Covid patients who needed our care during the pandemic."

He said while NHS England was not typically asked to contribute to debates about controlling the spread of the virus, and measures such as lockdowns, he regularly attended COBRA meetings about the UK's response in the early part of 2020.

The inquiry has heard Sir Simon described in his statement that the meetings were not "optimally effective".

"My observation was that the COBRA meetings were very large...lots of people which often makes it very hsard to have substantial discussions," he has told the inquiry.

Ministers 'avoided' Cobra meetings chaired by Matt Hancock, says ex-NHS chief

10:31 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Sir Simon Stevens says senior ministers “sometimes avoided” Cobra meetings in the early days of the pandemic chaired by Matt Hancock.

Asked by Andrew O’Connor KC if that was a reflection on Mr Hancock, Sir Simon said: “I am not saying that was cause and effect, but that was the fact of the matter.”

“I just observed that those two coincided.”

Dominic Cummings called Matt Hancock 'a proven liar' in WhatsApp message

10:43 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Andrew O'Connor KC has read a WhatsApp from Dominic Cummings, sent in August 2020.

In the message, he indicated he felt both then-health secretary Matt Hancock and then-NHS Chief Executive Sir Simon Stevens should be forced out.

"I must stress that leaving Hancock in post is a big mistake," Mr Cummings, chief adviser to PM Boris Johnson, said in the message read out to the inquiry.

"He's a proven liar who nobody believes or should believe on anything.

"We'll be back around that cabinet table with him and Stevens bulls******g again...hideous prospect."

Hearing takes a break

11:13 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

There will now be a brief break, until 11.25am.

Matt Hancock 'wanted to decide who should live and die', former NHS boss alleges

11:26 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Matt Hancock wanted to decide “who should live and who should die” if hospitals became overwhelmed by coronavirus patients, a former chief executive of NHS England has told the Covid inquiry.

Lord Simon Stevens’s witness statement said: “The secretary of state for health and social care took the position that in this situation he – rather than, say, the medical profession or the public – should ultimately decide who should live and who should die.

“Fortunately this horrible dilemma never crystallised.”

Giving oral evidence to the inquiry, Lord Stevens added: “I certainly wanted to discourage the idea that an individual secretary of state, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, should be deciding how care would be provided.

“I felt that we are well served by the medical profession, in consultation with patients to the greatest extent possible, in making those kinds of decisions.”

Boris Johnson suggested historic NHS 'bed blocking' prompted the need for lockdowns

11:42 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Boris Johnson has told the Covid inquiry that it was “very frustrating” to be forced into a lockdown due to the problem of “bed blocking”.

In a section of his witness statement, shared with the inquiry, he said: “It was very frustrating to think that we were being forced to extreme measures to lock down the country and protect the NHS – because the NHS and social services had failed to grip the decades old problem of delayed discharges, commonly known as 'bed blocking'.

"Before the pandemic began I was doing regular tours of hospitals and finding that about 30 per cent of patients did not strictly need to be in acute sector beds.”

Ex-NHS England boss rejects PM's suggestion 'bed blockers' sparked lockdowns

11:46 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Lord Stevens rejected Boris Johnson's suggestion “bed blockers” were a key cause for the UK's decision to lock down.

He told the inquiry: “We, and indeed he, were being told that if action was not taken on reducing the spread of coronavirus, there wouldn’t be 30,000 hospital inpatients, there would be maybe 200,000 or 800,000 hospital inpatients.

“So you can’t say that you would be able to deal with 200,000 or 800,000 inpatients by reference to 30,000 blocked beds.

“Even if all of those 30,000 beds were freed up – for every one coronavirus patient who was then admitted to that bed, there would be another five patients who needed that care but weren’t able to get it.

"So no, I don’t think that is a fair statement in describing the decision calculus for the first wave.”

Questioning of ex-NHS England CEO comes to an end

12:13 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

The questioning of former NHS England chief executive Sir Simon Stevens has now ended.

Next up is Sir Christopher Wormald, permanent secretary at the Department of Health and Social Care.

'I cannot think of a time when Matt Hancock said something untrue' - DHSC permanent secretary

12:40 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

Sir Christopher says he cannot think of times then-Health Secretary Matt Hancock said things that "just weren't accurate".

"I couldn't identify instances were he had said something untrue," he had told the inquiry.

During further questioning, Sir Christopher was asked: "But there were instances weren't there...where he may have been economic with the actuality?"

"I couldn't point to a spec example," Sir Christopher responded. "It was much more...overpromising than actual untruth."

He said Mr Hancock made promises some people did not believe it would be possible to deliver, such as pledging certain numbers of tests would be delivered by certain dates.

"The secretary of state was always very clear that he believed it was possible [and] he believed it was very important to be optimistic and aspirational," said Sir Christopher.

Hearing breaks for lunch

12:51 , Lydia Chantler-Hicks

The hearing has been suspended for lunch. It is due to return at 1.45pm.